Raced a new Z06 Yesterday

[94cobra69ss396]

So I was in the Cobra on my way out to a customers yesterday cruising along at 65mph when a new Z06 pulls up next to me in the carpool lane. It didn't even have tags on it yet. So once he passes me he slows back down and then drops it and taps the throttle. So I drop it in 3rd and we both go for it. We were dead even until I shifted into 4th and then he starts to pull me (about a car length) until I get up to about 5000rpms and then I stay with him until we both had to let off due to traffic ahead.

That's the first time I've ever been pulled on the freeway and it sucked! :mad: It now has me thinking what if it had been a ZR1. He would have left me in his dust. I don't want to be beat by a factory stock car. I'm now thinking that I need to start building a 331, port my AFR165's, replace the stock 3.33 pulley for more boost and then tune it for the methanol injection that I installed but never had it tuned for.

[SeanPlunk]

So I was in the Cobra on my way out to a customers yesterday cruising along at 65mph when a new Z06 pulls up next to me in the carpool lane. It didn't even have tags on it yet. So once he passes me he slows back down and then drops it and taps the throttle. So I drop it in 3rd and we both go for it. We were dead even until I shifted into 4th and then he starts to pull me (about a car length) until I get up to about 5000rpms and then I stay with him until we both had to let off due to traffic ahead.

That's the first time I've ever been pulled on the freeway and it sucked! :mad: It now has me thinking what if it had been a ZR1. He would have left me in his dust. I don't want to be beat by a factory stock car. I'm now thinking that I need to start building a 331, port my AFR165's, replace the stock 3.33 pulley for more boost and then tune it for the methanol injection that I installed but never had it tuned for.

That's the spirit!

I think with a built 331, AFR 165's, and more boost you really wouldn't have to worry about stock anything except for maybe a Bugatti :drink:

[Leedom]

That is the spirit Ron. Build it big or don't build it at all.

[BRUTAL64]

So I was in the Cobra on my way out to a customers yesterday cruising along at 65mph when a new Z06 pulls up next to me in the carpool lane. It didn't even have tags on it yet. So once he passes me he slows back down and then drops it and taps the throttle. So I drop it in 3rd and we both go for it. We were dead even until I shifted into 4th and then he starts to pull me (about a car length) until I get up to about 5000rpms and then I stay with him until we both had to let off due to traffic ahead.

That's the first time I've ever been pulled on the freeway and it sucked! :mad: It now has me thinking what if it had been a ZR1. He would have left me in his dust. I don't want to be beat by a factory stock car. I'm now thinking that I need to start building a 331, port my AFR165's, replace the stock 3.33 pulley for more boost and then tune it for the methanol injection that I installed but never had it tuned for.


I got a close look at a ZR1 Saturday. IT's funny, it idles real quiet then hit the gas and all Hell breaks loose. I think you will need more than a 331.
:judge:

[SeanPlunk]

I got a close look at a ZR1 Saturday. IT's funny, it idles real quiet then hit the gas and all Hell breaks loose. I think you will need more than a 331.
:judge:

The ZR1 is a beast no doubt, but on stock tires it's a low 11 sec/high 10 sec car. A blown 331 with meth injection and aftermarket heads should be able to run deep 10's. If it's built right, my money is on Ron's car from a roll :judge:

[94cobra69ss396]

I got a close look at a ZR1 Saturday. IT's funny, it idles real quiet then hit the gas and all Hell breaks loose. I think you will need more than a 331.
:judge:

I do too but that's as big as I'll go. I don't like the rod angle on a 347 for the street and it would be too much money to go to a Dart block so I can go with a larger bore. I just needed a little more midrange to keep up with the Z06. He didn't have to change gears and as soon as I got into the lower range of 4th he started to pull until I got to 5000rpms. That's the advantage of having 427ci and the disadvantage of having 302ci with a centifugal. I think that with either a 331 or a smaller pulley and everything else the same on my car that we would have been even or that I could have pulled him the same way he did me.

[94cobra69ss396]

The ZR1 is a beast no doubt, but on stock tires it's a low 11 sec/high 10 sec car. A blown 331 with meth injection and aftermarket heads should be able to run deep 10's. If it's built right, my money is on Ron's car from a roll :judge:

I don't think so. At least not with AFR 165's even if I port them. Besides I will still be running my Crane 2040 to keep the car smog legal so that will affect the power as well. Maybe with a set of AFR 205's, a cam with duration in the 240 @ .050 range and a Paxton Novi 2000 instead of the Vortech S-Trim I would be able to beat a ZR1.

[SeanPlunk]

I don't think so. At least not with AFR 165's even if I port them. Besides I will still be running my Crane 2040 to keep the car smog legal so that will affect the power as well. Maybe with a set of AFR 205's, a cam with duration in the 240 @ .050 range and a Paxton Novi 2000 instead of the Vortech S-Trim I would be able to beat a ZR1.

True, I wasn't taking the cam into account.

[SeanPlunk]

True, I wasn't taking the cam into account.

Yes Brutal, that means you were right. Sorry I doubted you even for a second :suicide:






:)

[BRUTAL64]

Yes Brutal, that means you were right. Sorry I doubted you even for a second :suicide:






:)

That's fine grasshopper. You will learn.:leaving:

[BRUTAL64]

I do too but that's as big as I'll go. I don't like the rod angle on a 347 for the street and it would be too much money to go to a Dart block so I can go with a larger bore. I just needed a little more midrange to keep up with the Z06. He didn't have to change gears and as soon as I got into the lower range of 4th he started to pull until I got to 5000rpms. That's the advantage of having 427ci and the disadvantage of having 302ci with a centifugal. I think that with either a 331 or a smaller pulley and everything else the same on my car that we would have been even or that I could have pulled him the same way he did me.


I've always felt the 4.6 was too small. It's best to have at least a 4 inch bore to make REAL power. BUT> the fact you gave a Z06 a good run, shows your 4.6 does have some balls.:thumbs_up:

[enkeivette]

Even still I'll bet he drove away wondering what the hell you'd done to your 220hp Mustang. :drink:

[94cobra69ss396]

I've always felt the 4.6 was too small. It's best to have at least a 4 inch bore to make REAL power. BUT> the fact you gave a Z06 a good run, shows your 4.6 does have some balls.:thumbs_up:

It's not a 4.6. They didn't come out in the Mustangs until '96. I have a '94 Cobra which came with the 5.0 302 (4.00 bore x 3.00 stroke). The 331 would be a 4.030 bore with a 3.25 stoke and the 347 that I don't like for the street has a 3.40 stroke.

[SeanPlunk]

I've always felt the 4.6 was too small. It's best to have at least a 4 inch bore to make REAL power. BUT> the fact you gave a Z06 a good run, shows your 4.6 does have some balls.:thumbs_up:

His is a 306 - he has the pre-modular pushrod motor :thumbs_up:

[SeanPlunk]

LOL, he beat me to it.

[94cobra69ss396]

Even still I'll bet he drove away wondering what the hell you'd done to your 220hp Mustang. :drink:

Hey now, it's a real Cobra. It had 245hp!

[94cobra69ss396]

His is a 306 - he has the pre-modular pushrod motor :thumbs_up:

Actually it's still a 302 with the standard 4.00 bore.

[Vettezuki]

. . . It now has me thinking what if it had been a ZR1. He would have left me in his dust. I don't want to be beat by a factory stock car. I'm now thinking that I need to start building a 331, port my AFR165's, replace the stock 3.33 pulley for more boost and then tune it for the methanol injection that I installed but never had it tuned for.

It woulda flat walked away, but let's be honest; there are "factory stock cars" and then there are things like a ZR1 which really aren't a fair comparison at all. Think more in terms of base Corvette, which clearly you're faster than, GT 500 or what have you. Just my $.02.

Anywho, I imagine the Z was at least a little surprised to see a 94 Cobra hanging that tight. :thumbs_up:

[94cobra69ss396]

It woulda flat walked away, but let's be honest; there are "factory stock cars" and then there are things like a ZR1 which really aren't a fair comparison at all. Think more in terms of base Corvette, which clearly you're faster than, GT 500 or what have you. Just my $.02.

Anywho, I imagine the Z was at least a little surprised to see a 94 Cobra hanging that tight. :thumbs_up:

I'm sure he was but it still sucked for me. Just imagine how upset he would have been if I had walked him in his brand new Vette. I'm sure he spent a lot on it because it had upgrades already done like Silver racing stripes, chrome wheels and chrome exhaust. It was pretty loud too because I could hear it from in my car and my car is really loud. It was a beautiful car though.

[BRUTAL64]

It's not a 4.6. They didn't come out in the Mustangs until '96. I have a '94 Cobra which came with the 5.0 302 (4.00 bore x 3.00 stroke). The 331 would be a 4.030 bore with a 3.25 stoke and the 347 that I don't like for the street has a 3.40 stroke.

My bad!!! Trying to read these and work at the same time.

OK, 302 now we're talking. So we have the 4 inch bore. My friends that have 347s love them. Is the rod angle really that bad? Doesn't Joe run a 347?

[SexyLxy]

Just curious, what kind of driver? Young - old? Did you get a look?

[94cobra69ss396]

My bad!!! Trying to read these and work at the same time.

OK, 302 now we're talking. So we have the 4 inch bore. My friends that have 347s love them. Is the rod angle really that bad? Doesn't Joe run a 347?

CI Rod Length Stroke Ratio
302 5.090 3.000 1.696:1
331 5.400 3.250 1.662:1
347 5.400 3.400 1.588:1

Beside the ratio it also moves the wrist pin up into the oil rings. With how much I drive my car I would prefer a 331 if I stroke it. My first option would be to stay with the 302 and just port the heads and install a smaller blower pulley.

[BRUTAL64]

CI Rod Length Stroke Ratio
302 5.090 3.000 1.696:1
331 5.400 3.250 1.662:1
347 5.400 3.400 1.588:1

Beside the ratio it also moves the wrist pin up into the oil rings. With how much I drive my car I would prefer a 331 if I stroke it. My first option would be to stay with the 302 and just port the heads and install a smaller blower pulley.

My 400 is around 1.56 ratio with a six inch rod that the wirst pin goes into the oil ring. No problems.
I've always liked the 347 combo. The bottom end and mid range would really come up with the 3.40 stroke.
Damn, you need to beat a ZR1. That would be sooooo coooool!:bigthumbsup::bigthumbsup:

[94cobra69ss396]

Just curious, what kind of driver? Young - old? Did you get a look?

Driver looked mid 50's but was trying to look like he was in his 20's with his spiked hair and earrings. The passenger looked like he was late 20's early 30's.

[Vettezuki]

Driver looked mid 50's but was trying to look like he was in his 20's with his spiked hair and earrings. The passenger looked like he was late 20's early 30's.

It's not a mid-life crisis if yo never grow up in the first place. :smack:

[94cobra69ss396]

It's not a mid-life crisis if yo never grow up in the first place. :smack:

Then I'm set. Just ask my wife.

[BRUTAL64]

It's not a mid-life crisis if yo never grow up in the first place. :smack:

I'm living proof of that.!!!!!!!:motorsmile:

[Leedom]

It's not a mid-life crisis if yo never grow up in the first place. :smack:

Preach on Brother Ben!!

BTW, Ron what kind of power are you putting down now?

[94cobra69ss396]

Preach on Brother Ben!!

BTW, Ron what kind of power are you putting down now?

It put down 425whp on pump gas and 433whp on 100 octane but the SC belt slipped on the pull so it should be around 450. But that ws also about 30,000 miles ago.

[big2bird]

It woulda flat walked away, but let's be honest; there are "factory stock cars" and then there are things like a ZR1 which really aren't a fair comparison at all. Think more in terms of base Corvette, which clearly you're faster than, GT 500 or what have you. Just my $.02.


Agreed. (You left out the part where he runs with the A/C on too):sm_laughing:

[Sonic03SVT]

in for that 331/347 debate.

Ive built more than my share of SBFs by now, and i do generally suggest the 331s. The 347 rod angle isnt the best, but it will work, For how long is a matter of personal opinion. I know plenty of people who swear by them, but i wouldnt run a 347 in something i was going to drive regularly. For a track car/fun toy, its fine. Just dont expect any great amount of longevity from it. Just my 2c.

[SeanPlunk]

in for that 331/347 debate.

Ive built more than my share of SBFs by now, and i do generally suggest the 331s. The 347 rod angle isnt the best, but it will work, For how long is a matter of personal opinion. I know plenty of people who swear by them, but i wouldnt run a 347 in something i was going to drive regularly. For a track car/fun toy, its fine. Just dont expect any great amount of longevity from it. Just my 2c.

Yeah, Ron drives his Cobra a lot, so the 331 is definitely the better choice for him. Can someone please explain to me how rod angle works? I can visualize it to an extent, but I'm not exactly clear on what a bad rod angle means exactly?

[heypal]

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/09/stroker/index2.php

[SeanPlunk]

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/09/stroker/index2.php

Excellent - thank you :hail:

[heypal]

anytime

[Vettezuki]

. . . Damn, you need to beat a ZR1. That would be sooooo coooool!:bigthumbsup::bigthumbsup:

No Brutal, it wouldn't be "cool" . . . it'd be pretty awesome if a regular Joe, or Ron in this case, pieced together an overall reliable daily driver that could even *think* to run with something like a ZR1. The keys here are, reliable daily driver, vaguely plausible gas milage, something like handling . . . something somehow comparable. It ain't all that mystical to make massive power and go fast . . . especially from a roll. Creating a "package" is where the art and magic is at.

I think we can agree though, what GM has done with the ZR1 at just over $100k for a production car is astounding. I hope it ain't their swan song. :(

[BADDASSC6]

Don't be a pussy:pot_stir:! put some forged internals and spray that bitch with the blower! I'm going to be in Fontana on friday saturday and Sunday if you need some more motivation:bigthumbsup:!

[BRUTAL64]

in for that 331/347 debate.

Ive built more than my share of SBFs by now, and i do generally suggest the 331s. The 347 rod angle isnt the best, but it will work, For how long is a matter of personal opinion. I know plenty of people who swear by them, but i wouldnt run a 347 in something i was going to drive regularly. For a track car/fun toy, its fine. Just dont expect any great amount of longevity from it. Just my 2c.

One of guys, here at work, has a 347 that he uses as a daily driver. He's been here 3 years and drives it every day. I haven't built a 347 myself, but don't see a problem with the rod angle/ratio as long as you keep the piston speed within limits. But, thats just me.:drink:

Ben:
It STILL would be cool to out run a ZR1 with a vehicle that is less that $40,000 or so.

[Leedom]

I think we can agree though, what GM has done with the ZR1 at just over $100k for a production car is astounding. I hope it ain't their swan song. :(

If I remember correctly the Ford GT was about $135K (plus the the mark-up I know) and it in itself was a pretty awesome car. I would not put it in the overall performance league as the ZR1 but in styling I think it wins hands down, but then again I am a Ford guy. I think the "big 3" can make some VERY impressive performance cars but many still only see what comes from across the pond as worth the cost.

Sorry about the highjacking!

[BRUTAL64]

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/09/stroker/index2.php

I finally got to read your link. Just as I said before, The 1.58 ratio is not that much of a problem. The 331 has 1.66 and the 347 is 1.58. That is not that much in difference.
Case in point; In 1988 I built my first 400 with a 5.7 rod --rod ratio around 1.56. In 2006 I pulled it down and the piston skirts were PERFECT. No sign at all of undue loads. I drove that engine hard ( to 7200 rpm ) and it was a daily driver.


I think and know the rod ratio of 1.58 will be no problem. :drink:

[BADDASSC6]

If I remember correctly the Ford GT was about $135K (plus the the mark-up I know) and it in itself was a pretty awesome car. I would not put it in the overall performance league as the ZR1 but in styling I think it wins hands down, but then again I am a Ford guy. I think the "big 3" can make some VERY impressive performance cars but many still only see what comes from across the pond as worth the cost.

Sorry about the highjacking!

Nope! A stock Ford GT would get walked by a stock Z06. Quick yes, but not quite in the same legue as the ZR1. Actually, I think the LS3 z51 would walk it too. :thumbs_up:

[94cobra69ss396]

Don't be a pussy:pot_stir:! put some forged internals and spray that bitch with the blower! I'm going to be in Fontana on friday saturday and Sunday if you need some more motivation:bigthumbsup:!

No NOS on the Cobra. I want to be able to beat one anytime not just at the track. Also, I do have forged pistons but the rest is stock. Are you running the track day at CSW all three days? Wait a minute, didn't I already hand you your ass in a drag race with my little old Cobra? :pot_stir: J/K. I know I had better tires than you and I read that you got some new drag radials. Maybe we can run again at the next street legals in May. I'm going to try and get the Chevelle done by then too so I can try and get into the 9's.

I finally got to read your link. Just as I said before, The 1.58 ratio is not that much of a problem. The 331 has 1.66 and the 347 is 1.58. That is not that much in difference.
Case in point; In 1988 I built my first 400 with a 5.7 rod --rod ratio around 1.56. In 2006 I pulled it down and the piston skirts were PERFECT. No sign at all of undue loads. I drove that engine hard ( to 7200 rpm ) and it was a daily driver.


I think and know the rod ratio of 1.58 will be no problem. :drink:

I did some more research after your post yesterday and found that the 347 still has a better rod ratio than my 454 does. That made me feel better about a 347 because my 454 came out of my brothers old '85 Suburban and it had over 200,000 miles on it when I rebuilt it. It still had the hone marks in the bores so I didn't need to bore it out. I just had a fresh hone done and it was good to go. I also won't be running it very high because I'll be using my same Crane 2040 cam that only has .498 lift with 220 at .050. It only pulls to 6000 rpm so that will help with longevity.

[SexyLxy]

Don't be a pussy:pot_stir:! put some forged internals and spray that bitch with the blower! I'm going to be in Fontana on friday saturday and Sunday if you need some more motivation:bigthumbsup:!

What are you doing at fontana friday/saturday?

[BRUTAL64]

I did some more research after your post yesterday and found that the 347 still has a better rod ratio than my 454 does. That made me feel better about a 347 because my 454 came out of my brothers old '85 Suburban and it had over 200,000 miles on it when I rebuilt it. It still had the hone marks in the bores so I didn't need to bore it out. I just had a fresh hone done and it was good to go. I also won't be running it very high because I'll be using my same Crane 2040 cam that only has .498 lift with 220 at .050. It only pulls to 6000 rpm so that will help with longevity.


You won't regret those extra cubic inches. You will just go faster.:bigthumbsup:

[BADDASSC6]

No NOS on the Cobra. I want to be able to beat one anytime not just at the track. Also, I do have forged pistons but the rest is stock. Are you running the track day at CSW all three days? Wait a minute, didn't I already hand you your ass in a drag race with my little old Cobra? :pot_stir: J/K. I know I had better tires than you and I read that you got some new drag radials. Maybe we can run again at the next street legals in May. I'm going to try and get the Chevelle done by then too so I can try and get into the 9's.



I did some more research after your post yesterday and found that the 347 still has a better rod ratio than my 454 does. That made me feel better about a 347 because my 454 came out of my brothers old '85 Suburban and it had over 200,000 miles on it when I rebuilt it. It still had the hone marks in the bores so I didn't need to bore it out. I just had a fresh hone done and it was good to go. I also won't be running it very high because I'll be using my same Crane 2040 cam that only has .498 lift with 220 at .050. It only pulls to 6000 rpm so that will help with longevity.

You sure did!:drink: A blown Cobra on slicks versus a vette with a "baby" cam on 19" street tires. I do now have drag radials:thumbs_up: and the botton has fallen out of my 60' times:D. I will be road racing at California speedway on friday saturday and sunday. The limiting factor will be how long those front tires last:confused:.

I would offer to give rides, but I'm no longer allowed to after a little spin I had in turn four at Willows a couple of weeks ago:(.

[94cobra69ss396]

The limiting factor will be how long those front tires last:confused:.

Are these the same tires you just bought a little while ago? How many times have you run them and what tires are they?

Was the spin on the big track or at the streets? Obviously you are the Vette are okay. Did you just go out into the dirt?

[BADDASSC6]

The primary tires are Toyo R888 and I have the older set of Michelline Pilot sport cups. I was not happy with the michellines which is why I picked up the TOyos. The Toyos have two track days on them. The car is amazing for 10-15 minutes then hte front end over heats and it turns into a snow plow. I think I'm going to tun 19's all the way around 275's up front and 205's in the rear. I have the rims. Also, I wa running 1.25 degrees of chamber all the way around and aparantly you need at least 2 degrees for the front end. I could definately see the wear on the outside.

[heypal]

The primary tires are Toyo R888 and I have the older set of Michelline Pilot sport cups. I was not happy with the michellines which is why I picked up the TOyos. The Toyos have two track days on them. The car is amazing for 10-15 minutes then hte front end over heats and it turns into a snow plow. I think I'm going to tun 19's all the way around 275's up front and 205's in the rear. I have the rims. Also, I wa running 1.25 degrees of chamber all the way around and aparantly you need at least 2 degrees for the front end. I could definately see the wear on the outside.

205's or 305's? maybe there is a secret I don't know about sounds like a bad ass car though.

[BADDASSC6]

205's or 305's? maybe there is a secret I don't know about sounds like a bad ass car though.

It was a typo 305s in the rear.

[heypal]

sweetness. Must take pics

[Leedom]

The primary tires are Toyo R888 and I have the older set of Michelline Pilot sport cups. I was not happy with the michellines which is why I picked up the TOyos. The Toyos have two track days on them. The car is amazing for 10-15 minutes then hte front end over heats and it turns into a snow plow. I think I'm going to tun 19's all the way around 275's up front and 205's in the rear. I have the rims. Also, I wa running 1.25 degrees of chamber all the way around and aparantly you need at least 2 degrees for the front end. I could definately see the wear on the outside.

I thought I rear some where the other day that when road racing you also want some more toe out.