Last Shark Gets New Teeth

[Vettezuki]

Finally, after nearly a year of acquiring parts and researching, the conversion of my 82' to an LS is underway. I'll update this thread as I go and hopefully it'll be useful to anyone else considering this conversion in the future.

Here's the short block, Heads and Trans before loading up.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0255.JPG

A pile of miscellaneous parts and accessories.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0256.JPG

A truck loaded with all the goodies for transport to conversion location.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0258.JPG

[Vettezuki]

So here's some examples of the problems I ran into. I bought truck coil packs with the mistaken understanding they would work for my application. Technically, the coils would work, and some builders say the truck coil packs are slightly superior because of higher heat tolerance. However, they most certainly can not be mounted in conjunction with the F/Y body fuel rails. See below. Note how the fuel rail connection points directly into the coil pack connector. I guess guys who use the truck packs must be using after market fuel rails.


http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/That_sNotGood.jpg

Next, note the rather substantial difference between F and Y body balancers. The Y body on the left is much tighter to the block. I recommend the F body because it gives a little more clearance away from the block, which will come in handy for mounting an R4 A/C compressor in front of the passenger side head. You cannot use the stock A/C compressor because it completey interferes with C3 control arms.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/medium/FvsY_Balancer.JPG

Other gotchas.

The LS1 intake from a Y body does not have the threaded inserts to mount the throttle cable bracket, which is necessarry for our C3s . . . unless you want to try and get a fly by wire setup to work. This is not such a huge problem since I'll take the opportunity to upgrade to an LS6 intake. Note, there is NO smog legal intake other than stock in CA. BBK is working on getting an E.O.#, but they don't yet have one.

The TPIS headers I got with the motor came from a Y body as well. Regrettably they tie together underneath the bellhousing area and go straight back. On the Y body, there is space because there is much more clearance by the torque tube as the transmission is in the rear. On my F body like setup, the bell housing is much larger as the transmission is in the front and therefore no room.

Finally, the motor as of a few days ago:

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/PartiallyAssembled.jpg

[Vettezuki]

The motor is currently at my Uncle's machine shop. From next week they'll begin designing and making an A/C mounting bracket and modifying the waterpump. Here's some pics of its current state.

Here's the SLP F-Body Underdrive. When the A/C is finally installed, we'll probably run everything off of this one pully since it will line up better than trying to get it to run off the A/C pully.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0334.JPG


Here' you can see the heater pipes coming straight out of the waterpump. Unfortunately they go straight in to the control arms on a C3. We'll probably pull these pipes out, tap between them for bolting an adapter that will point back and up and seal with o-rings. That's the plan at the moment anyway.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0336.JPG


Under the manifold you can see the Vettworks adapter plate and stock motor mounts. This should make for a nice mounting position in the engine compartment. You can also see the world's most expensive oil filter . . . time will tell if that was worth while or not. Looks cool ;)

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0337.JPG

The ported truck throttle body that supposedly flows just over 1000 CFM. In conjunction with the LS6 intake, bigger cam and hi-flowing, hi-compression heads, this motor should make an honest 400 plus to the ground on a good tune and stock exhaust. We'll see :)

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0335.JPG


Some other angles of the motor. You can easily see the stock F-Body routing of the accessories. The A/C will go in the upper passenger side and most likely on a single serpentine. This will require relocating the tensioner which is presently mounted to the waterpump.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0333.JPG

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0332.JPG

[Vettezuki]

Finally, back to actual work. Today we removed the old lump.


Here it is up on stands, getting fluids drained and various connections removed:

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/AboutReady.JPG

Side view of the L83 prior to removal:

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/L83FromSide.JPG

Top view from above cockpit . . . looks like something the Borg would make :laughing:

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/L83FromCab.JPG


Removed. Actually, once connections were severed it came out in one piece pretty easily.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/L83and700R4.JPG


The empty engine bay. We'll clean her up good'n purty before installing the new motor and trans. Plus we'll use this time to install the new clutch/brake pedals, locate the ecm etc.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/EngineBay1.JPG

I'm hell bent on keeping A/C and to the greatest extent possible, stock locations for things I'm keeping. I'll be deleting the cruise control. We're thinking to locate the ecm about where the crusie control and maybe windshield wiper fluid bottle (never use that anyway). It's a nice discrete spot. A second possiblity is to exchange my harness for the longer run and piggy back with the sctock ecm and harness path, which is in the cabin. I kind of like keeping it shorter and all in the compartment as they are on modern cars.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/MasterCylinder.JPG



Also, one thing we did manage to do at my cousin's place was pull the stock heater pipes and replace with 45 degree brass fittings. I used a 1/2 -> 3/8 bushing and 3/8 on both the send and return. Since it is a closed and pressurized fluid system, 3/8 is the least common denominator for flow anyway so it makes no difference in function. Apparently having different sizes was just a keying mechanism so they would connect the send and return correctly on the assembly line. This should clear the control arm just fine and give a nice flowing shot to the heater core.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/ModifiedLSWaterpump1.jpg

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/ModifiedLSWaterpump2.jpg

Until next time. :cheers:

[SeanPlunk]

The car looks awesome - it's going to be a beast when it's done... Not as quick as the minivan, but probably close....

[Vettezuki]

Well, basically the delay is the result of a few things, but mainly the conversion from 700R4 to T56 (really just sorting the Master Cylinder).

Originally I was just thinking o f using a new 4th Gen MC, but the angle is totally wrong. Eventually I ended up going with an 85 Chevy 1 ton, because curiously it is a direct bolt up to the C3 Firewall; however, I did have to modify the rod.

Here's the Camaro MC in the orientation it would be in the C3:

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/MC_3.JPG

Here's the same MC in the orientation it needs to be in:
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/MC_4.JPG

Here's the location where it slips through the firewall and links up to the clutch pedal.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/MC_1.JPG

Here you can visualize a little better the problem with the 4th Gen MC. Supposedly Street and Performance makes and adapter that mounts to the firewall using the brake booster bolts. I decided to just go with the truck master.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/MC_2.JPG


The down side of the truck master that I got from AutoZone is that it did not include the resevoire or hydraulic line (naturally). So I've had to run down a hydraulic line with the correct quick connect to the slave and will have the "Hose Man" make up the A/N fitting for the MC side. Remote resevoire is not such a big deal, just make sure the feed line is rated for hydraulic/brake fluid and not just any rubber.


Next problem is the speedo and tac. On my 82' the Speedo is mechanical and the the Tac is electronic. While driving around with my speedo (safely) pegged to 85mph was amusing, it did get kind of old. So like a true dork I bought 5" 200mph AutoMeter gage. Looks great, and I thought there'd be plenty of space in the panel to massage it into place. . . no. However, making a new instrument panel isn't sooooo hard.

To start with, the depth is a bit wrong, plus I'd have to hack apart the inards of the stock panel, which is kind of a no no for me.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/Gauge_4.JPG

With face plate off:

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/Gauge_2.JPG


Not to worry, that's why god invented cardboard:
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/Gauge_5.JPG

For mock up . . .

So I bought some ABS plastic, weld on 4 glue, hole saws and so on. Tomorrow night we'll build the new panel. It'll be good enough to last a couple years before getting to the full-tilt new interior.

[Vettezuki]

So we made the instrument panel last thuursday and I stuffed the gagues in today. Here's how it went.

1 - After taking measurements for box dimensions, make a template and test with cardboard. Then trace cardboard template onto plywood and cut out with jig saw or band saw.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0508.JPG

2 - Using the mystical powers of double-sided tape, attach 1/8" ABS to said template.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0516.JPG

3 - Using a router with a flush trim bit and guide bearing, set router depth to follow plywood template and cut out ABS part. NOTE: You really should use a router table. However, since I don't have one yet, I firmly held the head of the router against the cast iron top of my table saw while my brother guided the part across the face. This is DANGEROUS. If you are not comfortable using a router, and even if you are, this is not a recommended "technique". Neverhteless, it worked like a charm for our purposes:

Before:
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0518.JPG

After:
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0521.JPG

4 - Unfortunatley, I didn't get any pictures of the bending process, but basically with a heat gun (not a dryer, a heat gun) and buck (template around which to bend the plastic) heat up the edges for a cuple minutes and the piece will almost just fall into shape around the buck.

Here's what it looks like mid process or so:
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0524.JPG

5 - Test fit the 1/4" ABS back plate into the box

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0525.JPG

6 - Protoype location of gauges.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0523.JPG


7 - Mark and cut holes for gauges and indicators.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0526.JPG

8 - Clamp backplate into box around buck and using Weldon 4 glue, apply to seam.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0527.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0529.JPG

9 - Fasten gauges into openings.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/IMG_0533.JPG


It's a little ghetto, but very tough and durable, certainly good enough for a couple years until I get to the interior. If it really starts to bug me, I can take this box panel and have it made out of sheet metal easily.

[Vettezuki]

Finally the the master cylinder is sorted out and installed. It took longer than I had hoped but but it's a solid installation.

Here's the MC. Note the 9/16" Heim jointed end that connects to the pedal. I had to cut the rod short and turn it down a bit to thread (it's an odd size) and put a stud for connecting the heim jointed end. From the cap of the MC to the center of the eye in the joint is about 6". Also, the hydraulic line is from McLeod. They have a 22" line with the correct GM OEM fitting for the slave and an AN-4 for the other end. The weird thing is the tap on the MC; it was a M12X1.0, which is a little odd and getting an AN -4 <-> M12x1.0 took a little while as well.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/MC_5.JPG


Installed from the inside. We drilled holes through the firewall and put bolts from the inside to act like studs. Otherwise, the truck master bolts up directly to the C3 firewall. NOTE: It seems the truck MC is an 11/16 bore and the slave is really designed to take a 3/4 bore. however, according to McLeod, as long as the stroke is about 1", it will move enough fluid to disengage the clutch.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/MC_2.JPG

From inside the cabin. Here you can clearly see the heim jointed end connected to the clutch pedal. It is a good firm connection.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/MC_7.JPG

[Vettezuki]

While not complete there has been considerable progress.

Let's begin with the Flaming River rack. As some of ya'lls might know, I decided to go with the FR bolt-in manual rack to replace my somewhat tired and not so accurate stock steering box. All in all it went in without too much hassle and came out looking something like the following:

View from passenger side:
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/RackFromPassengerSide.JPG

View from driver side:
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/RackFromDriverSide.JPG

Close up view of linkage:
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/RackLinkage.JPG

Steering input coming through firewall. You can also see the clutch MC:
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/SteeringAndMC1.JPG


So it was all cool until the motor got slipped in. Ruh-roh. It seems FR designed the rack to work with a GenI and the F-Body pan on a GenIII just slightly touched the cradle for the rack. It will have to be pulled and modified with a slight notch and reinforcement. I've brought this to the attention of FR and they say they'll take a look at the issue. For those considering this rack with a GenIII in a C3, know that you'll have to modify the cradle, or wait until FR provides an updated design.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/RackInterference.JPG

In the following pictures you can see how the modified heater pipes coming out of the water pump just barely clear the stock control arm:
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/HeaterPipes2.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/HeaterPipes1.JPG

One of the few, and frankly unsuspected get lucky moments was when we discovered that the stock drive shaft from the 82' works as is with the GenIII and T56 when using the Vette Works motor mount adapters and the stock Dana 44 rear-end. Since I hope to be putting *only* about 400HP to the ground the stock shaft and (rebuilt) rear end should be just fine.

One of the many, and frankly unsuspected get unlucky moments was when I realized my mechanic was right when he said Painless Wiring should be called Pain in the Ass Wiring. Run lengths to sensors were crap for this installation. You'd have to practically undue and re-bundle the harness. I thought it included wiring for fan control, but nope. Also, the fact it contained all the hookups for a manual and an automatic made it even messier. Yet another example of where trying to be all things to all people just doesn't work. So I returned it to our good friends at Summit and got a more purpose built harness from Speed Scene Wiring. With them you can talk about your application and they'll customize lengths. It also includes fan control with the GM OEM connectors, reverse lockout, backup lights, and only the trans sensors you need for your application. The stupid part is the total cost is virtually the same as the Painless. I've decided to go ahead and pull the stock ECM and harness completely and install the GenIII ECM in the stock location. This should go a great deal towards making a very clean install once it's all done.


The Pro5 shifter came up in about the right place, but is pretty big, so we'll need to do a bit of modification to the trans tunnel to get it to come up nicely. And of course, we'll need an offset to get it to come out of the right place on the plate.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/Pro5Shifter.JPG

Oh yeah, the engine is in. We should be ready for the first fire up in about a month. Assuming I can get a tune and (gulp) pass the California engine swap referee I plan on taking it to Super Chevy in March; held this year at beautiful Fontana Speedway.

My mechanic/installer (ls1z28) is in the picture. I was very fortunate to find a guy who is patient and dedicated to doing things the right way for durable use, clean appearance and complete functionality.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/513/LSFromFront.JPG

[Chate]

Awesome!

I'm adding this line to pass the 10 character limit for posts lol.

[Vettezuki]

Well, basically everything is great . . .except the cooling fans don't come on at their trigger temps. We're pretty much down to it being the computer itself (apparently it uses a pull up resistor for triggering the fan relay) or . . . gasp. . . the wiring harness. We've tested the relays, ground, and the fans themselves work fine. In fact, oddly, they come on during a cold start for about one minute, but then never come on again. We've tried 2 totally different custom programs and they behave exactly the same. The makers of the harness are going to send a new computer. Hopefully that works, if not, it's really starting to look like there is some mistake in the harness itself. I know we could work around it bypassing the computer completely and using a temp switch but I can't stand not knowing why something relatively simple isn't working as it should.

Other than that, it the little bit I've gotten to drive it, it's awesome. Pretty vicious, but still streetable. I'm a very patient person, :whistle: but I really want to see this phase come to an end. . .

[Vettezuki]

Found the problem with the cooling fans. Turns out it was nothing more than the pin out on the fan relay connector was reversed. The good news is that it took about 3 minutes to fix . . . unfortunately it took me about 2 months to find. :(

Now that that's out of the way I can finally turn my attention to buttoning up the remaining issues before scheduling a session with our lovely CA engine swap referee.

They are:
- charging A/C
- installing speedo and tach
- installing new Alt (investment in reliability as old one was putting out somewhat low voltage, then just about everything will be new or pretty new)
- finding out why the AIR pump relay isn't getting power; might just be a bad fuse link
- figure out what's drawing major current at all times
- dyno test/tune to make sure she's running clean

That being said, I got drive her a fair bit on Saturday. . . Wow, even in the currently somewhat un-tuned state, it's just a different world. Torque everywhere as well as rev happy . . . and when you get into the revs, watch out. She pulls hard beyond where I lose my nerve.

I do look forward to the 5 link rear suspension and modern wheels/tires for stability's sake. Right now I really have to be paying attention when I get anywhere near the go pedal.

Pics and videos within a week.

[enkeivette]

How does it handle with 17s? What size tires did you end up going with?

I feel your electric fan relay pains, I've been through 2 broken relays in the last 3 months. Just ordered a Painless kit, plan to install it tomorrow. On at 185, off at 170.

[Vettezuki]

How does it handle with 17s? What size tires did you end up going with?


In comparison to the original 15s . . . uh, no comparison. I went with Nitto NT 450s, which have proven to be quite a good tire, especially for "just" a 255 section width. Since you last rode in it, I put in the VB&P Dual Mount Mono Spring in rear and 550lb Coil Springs up front. It's an overall huge difference. I'm considering putting in a 6 point cage to really stiffen it up, but I'm not sure yet. Hope you can come out to the track with us next time.

[enkeivette]

Awesome documentation. That rack and 'peanut' looks sexy, I want one for mine... maybe I'll steal yours when you're not lookin. :laugh:

Yeah, I'll bet the difference in handling was shocking. Mine went from handling like a Jeep to handling... well you've been in my car. Sway bars too! I'm running the biggest bars that I could find, Fast Corvette up front and Addco out back.

[Vettezuki]

Awesome documentation. That rack and 'peanut' looks sexy, I want one for mine... maybe I'll steal yours when you're not lookin. :laugh:

Yeah, I'll bet the difference in handling was shocking. Mine went from handling like a Jeep to handling... well you've been in my car. Sway bars too! I'm running the biggest bars that I could find, Fast Corvette up front and Addco out back.

I know where you live. :laugh: I love the feel of a manual rack. I wish it were perhaps just a touch faster ratio. . . maybe a smaller steering wheel will give the feeling I'm looking for. But now we're talking about details.

[anthonydalrymple]

Wow.... Nice work & i'm certain it'll move!

[Vettezuki]

Wow.... Nice work & i'm certain it'll move!

You should see (http://www.motorgen.com/vid/showphoto.php/photo/140/cat/505/si/Vettezuki/perpage/12) my 60' burnout. I'm pretty sure your supposed to go forward, but I haven't worked that out so well yet ;) On street tires at Fontana, I average 13.4 @ 109 with 2.4 60'. My best of 13.2 @ 111 is still faster than Seans 04' Cobra though. Something I "occasionally" remind him of.:nutkick:

[BRUTAL64]

You should see (http://www.motorgen.com/vid/showphoto.php/photo/140/cat/505/si/Vettezuki/perpage/12) my 60' burnout. I'm pretty sure your supposed to go forward, but I haven't worked that out so well yet ;) On street tires at Fontana, I average 13.4 @ 109 with 2.4 60'. My best of 13.2 @ 111 is still faster than Seans 04' Cobra though. Something I "occasionally" remind him of.:nutkick:

Nice runs. That's the first time I didn't want a FORD to hit the traps first. Still, damn nice runs. :thumbs_up:


Funny thing here-a little brain damage-I have NEVER lost to a FORD and I'm a FORD guy. Been beat by Hemis, 440s, 427/454 Chevelle, 69 Camaro 302 (so he said) and 455 Judge, but never a FORD. I'm sure there are many FORDs out there faster than my Vette, just been lucky not to run against one.

Now in my 64 Fairlane Hipo 289- I raced a "REAL" 67 Vette L88-- blew my doors off. Got my 64 Vette a year later. Like I said - Brain Damage.:judge:

[Vettezuki]

Nice runs. That's the first time I didn't want a FORD to hit the traps first. Still, damn nice runs. :thumbs_up:


Funny thing here-a little brain damage-I have NEVER lost to a FORD and I'm a FORD guy. Been beat by Hemis, 440s, 427/454 Chevelle, 69 Camaro 302 (so he said) and 455 Judge, but never a FORD. I'm sure there are many FORDs out there faster than my Vette, just been lucky not to run against one.

Now in my 64 Fairlane Hipo 289- I raced a "REAL" 67 Vette L88-- blew my doors off. Got my 64 Vette a year later. Like I said - Brain Damage.:judge:


FWIW, that Stang is Roush Stage something or other, and was on DRs. With DRs, I think it'd be a good heads up race.

[BRUTAL64]

FWIW, that Stang is Roush Stage something or other, and was on DRs. With DRs, I think it'd be a good heads up race.

Walking home from work yesterday,one of the shops ( next to mine ) had a 08 Mustang Race car, engine built by Roush. Brand new. He wouldn't trade for my 70 T-bird.:huh:
He said I could order one from a Ford dealer. Damn.:wtf:

[st-evo-9*corn fed-8urvet*]

cute car i mean its no evo or anything but its cute lol!!

but really wow u do some nice work thats a great looking set up u got there!

[Vettezuki]

cute car i mean its no evo or anything but its cute lol!!

I totally agree. When I think of cute, like puppies or kittens, or little girls having tea parties with their imaginary friends, I definitely think Evo, not Corvette. :smack: In all seriousness, I'm one of those rare guys who kind of likes the new Evo and for performance, there's been some psychotic ones. One of THE fastest cars at last year's Silver State Classic was an Evo.


but really wow u do some nice work thats a great looking set up u got there!

I'd love to take credit, and while I did a lot of the basic foot work and research, the knuckle busting as almost entirely done by our own ls1z28, who works out of his home garage. He is very methodical and won't take (or let you take) shortcuts. It worked out great. It's like a real car that just works. Many swaps don't end up so dialed in.

[st-evo-9*corn fed-8urvet*]

I totally agree. When I think of cute, like puppies or kittens, or little girls having tea parties with their imaginary friends, I definitely think Evo, not Corvette. :smack: In all seriousness, I'm one of those rare guys who kind of likes the new Evo and for performance, there's been some psychotic ones. One of THE fastest cars at last year's Silver State Classic was an Evo.

as far as straight line racing, the quickest evo has hit 8.56sec @ 171mph with 1,130 All Wheel HP. i know it could go faster but being as how its awd it gets that dog sliding on wet linoleum no traction action, unlike rwd cars with have hit much quicker times b/c once they hit there wheelie bars its nothing but traction

as for most average evo's if they want to keep there stock spool up range and want there car to be used more for road racing and handling there in the 11's

and if they want to go further ull find the mass majority of drag evo's fall into the 10's and 9's

....but then again if u go and see a road racing event thats where ill usually see the top bracet of fastest cars with first place finishes being evo's followed by a skyline, then sti lol

oh ya and i know im talking a shit load about evo's on this site but its not that im trying to be a prick or anything being how i drive one its kinda the car i know everyting about. and i love to learn about all cars im an all around car guy so please feel free to lay down some knowledge on me about GM land or any other cars that u feel like talking about.



I'd love to take credit, and while I did a lot of the basic foot work and research, the knuckle busting as almost entirely done by our own ls1z28, who works out of his home garage. He is very methodical and won't take (or let you take) shortcuts. It worked out great. It's like a real car that just works. Many swaps don't end up so dialed in.

really he should try his hands at other projects i would love to see what he can do elswhere.

maybe a nice rx-7 or delorian with an LS6 forced induction, or hell an LS-9 supercharged i think he would do pretty well on

[Vettezuki]

as far as straight line racing, the quickest evo has hit 8.56sec @ 171mph with 1,130 All Wheel HP. i know it could go faster but being as how its awd it gets that dog sliding on wet linoleum no traction action, unlike rwd cars with have hit much quicker times b/c once they hit there wheelie bars its nothing but traction

I tend to judge cars for what they do in basically stock form according to what they were designed to do for price X. The Evo for me is what it is, a street going variant of a great Rally car. It's awesome for the street because let's face it, most street driving is from a stop to 80mph, perhaps involving some nice breaking, and tight maneuvering, where a Rally car absolutely shines. By the time you get to sub 10 second cars, you're talking far more about the individual owner/builder than what the original car was. I think the the fastest cars at PSCA are a pair of 57 Chevy Bel Air (6 second cars). They didn't make them that way originally.

as for most average evo's if they want to keep there stock spool up range and want there car to be used more for road racing and handling there in the 11's

Not at Fontana. From memory I've personally yet see an Evo crack a 12 there let alone an 11. But Fontana is the Devil's track.


and if they want to go further ull find the mass majority of drag evo's fall into the 10's and 9's

10s and 9s are for pros and whack jobs, almost regardless of car . . . unless you're talking stock C6Zs which have been konwn to run hi 10s . . . on run-flats.:hail: I'd like see some of this level of Evos come out. There's only so many Turbo Civics I can handle. :laugh:


....but then again if u go and see a road racing event thats where ill usually see the top bracet of fastest cars with first place finishes being evo's followed by a skyline, then sti lol

What events are you going to? In professional classed Sports Car racing, these cars are in different classes than the Vettes, Aston Martin's etc., and are certainly running different times.


oh ya and i know im talking a shit load about evo's on this site but its not that im trying to be a prick or anything being how i drive one its kinda the car i know everyting about. and i love to learn about all cars im an all around car guy so please feel free to lay down some knowledge on me about GM land or any other cars that u feel like talking about.

It's way cool. You're not a hater. I learned a lot on the Engine RPO thread from your essay. . . I'm not going to learn that from a GM guy, and certainly not from a Ford guy b/c I'm not even sure they can write. :nutkick: [That was for you Sean. ]

This is exactly the conversations we were hoping to have when building the site. The model specific sites are great for what they do, but are limited in scope, we wanted a truly open site for having fun and learning. It's not really for fanboys who think their car is the greatest car ever created and everything else sucks.


really he should try his hands at other projects i would love to see what he can do elswhere.

maybe a nice rx-7 or delorian with an LS6 forced induction, or hell an LS-9 supercharged i think he would do pretty well on

I think he can pretty much do anything. If I had mad bank, I'd build a Factory Five GTM (http://www.factoryfive.com/gtmhome.html) with an LS9. 2,400lbs . . . 650HP in a mid-engined space frame for $60k. Sounds like fun. That's not likely, but I might Super Charge my Vette some day. I'm sure he could do the RX swap if anybody is interested.

[st-evo-9*corn fed-8urvet*]

lol omg too many quotes :-(

as for evo's hitting 11's at fontana i know they have a worker at the evo shop i go to ran his car at that battle of the imports bracet racing thing they have he got 2nd place at 11.8 he could have shaved off 2/10th but he had to stay in his bracket and he was on a stock turbo, 100oct, and bolt ons

and i should have been in the 12's last time i ran but i launched to low *because i forgot to set my rev limiter higher :-(* and i have shity tires that cherped in 1st and 2nd gear but then again that was cali speedways fault they should have prepped the damn track better if i damn 310hp awd car is breaking loose ur track was obviosly not prepped right!!

and as for what road racing events i attend......well redline time attack, NASA, speedventures. but being as how i dont like to drive to the boonies of lancast or button willow im kinda stuck to the events at cali speedway

oh and by the way if ur interested in going on july 19th and 20th its the redline time attack road race event at the inner road course at cali speedway! the 19th is practice and the 20th is the real racing....its a fun event and u can talk and mingle with the pit crews and look at the cars up close they also are having a car show that day and for a mear 200 bucks u can enter the even in whatever class ur car falls into. im not gonna be going the 19th though b/c its the annual mitsubishi owners day meet in irvine that day lol but ill be there sunday i think its a 10-15 buck spectator entree fee.

and lastly to ur bottom quote one day im gonna get an rx-7 i just dont know if i want to go lsx or 3 or 4 rotor turbo engine in it?

[Vettezuki]

Yeah, I'm a quote master.


Sadly I'll be in Germany the 19th and 20th, otherwise I'd surely go to that event. Maybe we'll send out one of the boys to the Mitsu event, take some pics and whatnot.

As for the RX, I hear ya, but I'd go for the LSx. Same basic overall weight and distribution, massive torque right now, better milage and durability. But Rotaries have that "I'm different factor" going on, which is cool.

We've got a swapped RX on the site.
Tfpracing (http://www.motorgen.com/garage/showvehicle.php?vid=161)

That's a stock LS1 with just a 100 shot (as I remember), running mid-11s.

[st-evo-9*corn fed-8urvet*]

nice rx-7 and ya i think thats the only reason like rotory engines is because of the "im different and can rev to 12k factor" lol

but ya man send one of your guys on the 19th to the mitsu owners day event if they want they can caravan with us evo's in the 909. u get to see a wide range of cars from older evo 1-7's, startions, dodge conquest lol, lasers, all eclipses, 3000gt, galant's and some other concept cars and rally cars its pretty fun. last year they had a dyno shootout and ofcourse an evo took it! lol

also send a guy to the road racing at cali speedway on the 20th i really think road racing needs all the exposure it can get

[Sonic03SVT]

I learned a lot on the Engine RPO thread from your essay. . . I'm not going to learn that from a GM guy, and certainly not from a Ford guy b/c I'm not even sure they can write. :nutkick::mad::mad:

[Vettezuki]

:mad::mad:


I see you can read though. :smack:

Just kidding guys. Did I ever mention that if Ford was serious about building a modern GT350 (light road racing style Mustang) I'd be seriously tempted. I'd have it black with a white streak on the head and call it Bucephalus, which was the name of Alexander the Great's horse. There, more than you ever wanted to know.

[BRUTAL64]

I see you can read though. :smack:

Just kidding guys. Did I ever mention that if Ford was serious about building a modern GT350 (light road racing style Mustang) I'd be seriously tempted. I'd have it black with a white streak on the head and call it Bucephalus, which was the name of Alexander the Great's horse. There, more than you ever wanted to know.


Actually Ford does build a race car you can buy from a dealer. Saw one the other day getting welded on. I didn't find out it's name though.;)

[st-evo-9*corn fed-8urvet*]

Actually Ford does build a race car you can buy from a dealer. Saw one the other day getting welded on. I didn't find out it's name though.;)

isnt it some sort of track mustange thats roll caged and stripped down? damn i forgot the name of it but i know i saw it at a dealer and in an online artical!!

[Vettezuki]

That's an actual factory spec racer. It's not for the road at all really. It's also well over $100k if I remember. I'm talking about something in the spirit of the original GT350, for around $40k.

[BRUTAL64]

That's an actual factory spec racer. It's not for the road at all really. It's also well over $100k if I remember. I'm talking about something in the spirit of the original GT350, for around $40k.

When the original GT350 was built, it was to be a dealer sold race car.:sm_up_there:

The 66 GT350 I had was a GREAT driver. Well balanced.:thumbs_up:

[Vettezuki]

When the original GT350 was built, it was to be a dealer sold race car.:sm_up_there:

The 66 GT350 I had was a GREAT driver. Well balanced.:thumbs_up:

Was it 4x the price of a base V8 model? The current one is specifically designed for competition in a Ford sponsored spec series (like the Miata Cup for MX-5s). It is completely stripped, caged, fuel cell, fire system, simply a race car. The original GT350 wasn't a pure spec racer was it?

[BRUTAL64]

Was it 4x the price of a base V8 model? The current one is specifically designed for competition in a Ford sponsored spec series (like the Miata Cup for MX-5s). It is completely stripped, caged, fuel cell, fire system, simply a race car. The original GT350 wasn't a pure spec racer was it?

Ok, the "R" version was starting around $6200 and the base on the Mustang was $2,600. This is from my foggy memory. Not a completely stripped vehicle but race legal at the time. Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges, but the same idea.:sm_up_there:


I'll try and be more scienitfic in the future,:o

[Vettezuki]

Ok, the "R" version was starting around $6200 and the base on the Mustang was $2,600. This is from my foggy memory. Not a completely stripped vehicle but race legal at the time. Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges, but the same idea.:sm_up_there:


I'll try and be more scienitfic in the future,:o


You may be comparing apples to oranges, but I may be splitting hairs. :smack:

Maybe the better distinction is that the GT350 was race ready but road legal, the current one is, to my knowledge, absolutely not road legal; it's a true race car.