Welding

[94cobra69ss396]

Thanks to Adam I've been practicing. Well I've practiced twice. I posted up my last weld on another site I'm on and got some great suggestions on bettering my welds. Here are a couple from tonight.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/100_11271.JPG

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/100_11281.JPG

[Vettezuki]

Thanks to Adam I've been practicing. Well I've practiced twice. I posted up my last weld on another site I'm on and got some great suggestions on bettering my welds. Here are a couple from tonight.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/100_11271.JPG

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/100_11281.JPG

Now that's start'n to look mighty pro! :thumbs_up:

[94cobra69ss396]

Thanks. I'm going to keep practicing on tip angle and my movement but at least I have the correct heat and wirespeed for .120 now.

[enkeivette]

That does look pro, share the tips! What angle are you holding the tip at? Also, where do you think I can buy square metal tubing? I want to make a hitch.

[enkeivette]

Also, is there some sort of chart for wirespeed/ relating to metal thickness?

[Vettezuki]

Also, is there some sort of chart for wirespeed/ relating to metal thickness?

Should be on your welder. Flip the door open.

[94cobra69ss396]

That does look pro, share the tips! What angle are you holding the tip at? Also, where do you think I can buy square metal tubing? I want to make a hitch.

Here was the best from what everyone posted.

kylesgorter - "I always set the voltage to the recomended setting for the thickness. With 0.023 I got a tad higher and with 0.035 the same or a tad lower. I go high on the WFS settings then start drawing a bead while turning the wfs down very slowly until i get the proper sound. Tuning by sound has always been the best for me. You want it to be a steady buzzing without popping, burnback, or sticking in the pool. You know you have it setup when it sounds like sizzling bacon and theres much less sparks and spatter. Rule of thumb, set the voltage first and tune the wfs to that. Every joint has its own setting that work best for it so experiment with different settings and joints and wire sizes and find what works best, also pushing or pulling the bead has a large affect on bead appearance, penetration etc. Be mindful of the feed angle as well as you do not want to compromise gas sheilding or flow and you want the heat directed into the joint. Always remeber dont keep up with the welder, set up the machine properly so that it keeps up with you.

Dont mess with weave patterns or "circles" or anything. getting your speed control and puddle control down first is most important. Draw straight stinger beads and watch the puddle. once you have mastered your speed control and can control the puddle's shape and thickness you can move on to a whip or zig zag technique. Ive found those to be all thats needed for 95% of joints.

I will say that the quality and appearance of your welding will always depend first and foremost on the joint prep and quality of the fit-up. Proper spacing, tacking, beveling etc is required to get the rest of it right. Some joints need more beveling where as others like corner joints with slightly thicker plate are better without any beveling on the outer shoulder but benefit from beveling in the root of the joint before fitup. Knowing these things is very important and you will not get better without practice.

I like running a smaller wire 0.023 for a lot for the work I do with a higher voltage. I use er70s-6 wire which is pretty standard but some shops supply others so its good to know the differences. You want the edges of your weld to "wet out" so that they look to be burned into the base material while at the same time having no real shoulder or undercut. The quality of your weld and its appearance come a lot from getting tha edge to look right. ive found if Im doing weverything right and the edges and machine are correct everything else is in spec as well."

As for tip angle, I had it pointed straight at the joint. This is what I still want to practice with. The other guys say that I can improve my start and finish by changing the angle some.

Also, I usually get my metal from Patton's but it's out in San Bernardino. I don't know where you would want to get it from. Usually these places have a scrap bin and you can get the scrap for cheaper. That's how I got the square tubing that I used on the Explorer.

[enkeivette]

What welding forum do you post on? I'm going to chop the area that the ball joint mounts to off the end of my friend's Ranger control arm, weld in a 2 or 3" section of pipe to move the ball joint mount down to fix the angle of the arm.

(Right now it's lifted so much, the control arm is at an extreme angle and it actually rests on the frame.)

Would you recommend that I fill in the gap between the end of the arm and the pipe extension and then do a roll of dimes on top? Or just roll of dimes it over the gap?

[94cobra69ss396]

What welding forum do you post on? I'm going to chop the area that the ball joint mounts to off the end of my friend's Ranger control arm, weld in a 2 or 3" section of pipe to move the ball joint mount down to fix the angle of the arm.

(Right now it's lifted so much, the control arm is at an extreme angle and it actually rests on the frame.)

Would you recommend that I fill in the gap between the end of the arm and the pipe extension and then do a roll of dimes on top? Or just roll of dimes it over the gap?

Dezertrangers.com in the Fab section.

Can you get a picture of what you are trying to fix? The way I have this pictured in my head is that you plan to cut and lower the upper A arm. Is that what you mean?

[enkeivette]

Yeah, the arms prob look the same on your Exploder. Since the ball joints are pressed in and we can't screw with them, I plan to cut the end of the arm off, place a pipe on top of the ball joint, weld it to the arm, weld the arm to the top of the pipe.

No pics, haven't done it yet. I'll see if I can get a paint illustration.

[Vettezuki]

Yeah, the arms prob look the same on your Exploder. Since the ball joints are pressed in and we can't screw with them, I plan to cut the end of the arm off, place a pipe on top of the ball joint, weld it to the arm, weld the arm to the top of the pipe.

No pics, haven't done it yet. I'll see if I can get a paint illustration.

I have a press if you find that you need one.

[enkeivette]

Before http://images2.carpartsdiscount.com/auto/archive/pictures/33668/600/1/P/C5583C/ford_ranger_02_control_arm_w_ball_joint_upper.jpg

After http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6977/fordranger02controlarmw.jpg

[enkeivette]

If it were any other car we could just swap out the balljoint for a longer one and the problem may be solved. But not only is this balljoint a bitch because it presses in, it also does not have a threaded stud. The stud is notched for a bolt that slides into the spindle.

I guess I should ask Autozone if I can raid their selection of ball joints, but it seems impractical that I would find something.

[blackax]

eek thats gonna be a lot of stress on the weld. I would look in to moveing the a arm mounting points

[94cobra69ss396]

Remember, I now have a solid front axle on my Explorer. No more A arms for me. How did your friend lift the front end? Does he still have the torsion bars or did he go to a coilover?

[enkeivette]

Remember, I now have a solid front axle on my Explorer. No more A arms for me. How did your friend lift the front end? Does he still have the torsion bars or did he go to a coilover?

Stock suspension, we just put in Silverado 2500 coils. Gave it about a 3" lift. And he has a 3" spindle lift and a 3" body lift on 35s. Looks cool, doesn't actually have all that much travel though.

[94cobra69ss396]

That thing must ride stiffer then the rear of Ben's Vette. I wouldn't cut the upper arm and space it down because you will change the geometry of the control arms. If the upper arm is touching the frame then you are already at full droop just at ride height. Can you get me some pictures of it?

On a side note, I'm going to start looking at building new extended upper and lower control arms on Eric's Explorer while retaining all wheel drive. Hopefully it will all work.

[enkeivette]

That thing must ride stiffer then the rear of Ben's Vette. I wouldn't cut the upper arm and space it down because you will change the geometry of the control arms. If the upper arm is touching the frame then you are already at full droop just at ride height. Can you get me some pictures of it?

On a side note, I'm going to start looking at building new extended upper and lower control arms on Eric's Explorer while retaining all wheel drive. Hopefully it will all work.

I'll ask my friend to send some. What would you do? He doesn't want to cut the springs and give up ride height. Should we move all of the control arms out an inch or so? Is there enough adjustment in the stock steering to reach out another inch on each side?

It does ride stiff. We put in Exploder leafs with add a leafs, it's stiff as a bitch. The Bilsteins make it tolerable though.

[94cobra69ss396]

Extending the arms won't keep it from hitting the frame at droop. Get me pictures of it.

[enkeivette]

Can you weld iron to steel?

[Vettezuki]

Can you weld iron to steel?

You mean like cast iron and mild steel? As far as I know, technically you can weld any two metals together, but managing the necessary heat between them can be very challenging. :huh:

[94cobra69ss396]

I've heard that cast iron is hard to weld to and that the weld will break off. However, I welded a pitman arm to a cast iron spindle and it hasn't broken yet.

Are you referring to the upper A arm on your buddies Ranger? Is it cast iron?

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/741/DSCF3200.JPG

[enkeivette]

Oh shit, I hadn't even considered that. Now that I think about it, it probably is.

Still waiting on his lazy ass to send a pic to get your advice.

[enkeivette]

How do you find out if its cast iron? I really think the solution needs to be moving the mounts, I'm still pretty skeptical about chopping and welding the stock arms. I would rather make my own. And I would if he didn't have such a funky ass ball joint stud.

[Vettezuki]

How do you find out if its cast iron? I really think the solution needs to be moving the mounts, I'm still pretty skeptical about chopping and welding the stock arms. I would rather make my own. And I would if he didn't have such a funky ass ball joint stud.

As the name implies, cast iron is cast. Unless it has been completely Finnish machined, it will have cast marks (seems) from the casts, and the surface won't be so smooth like steel, which is pressed and rolled from giant ingots.

FYI, Glenn has a young kid friend named Will in a shop next to him in HB. He builds all kinds of stuff for 4x4. He's seriously talented as a fabricator and I think he's done something either identical to what you want to do or similar. Maybe you could visit him and get some ideas if you were so inclined.

[enkeivette]

Extending the arms won't keep it from hitting the frame at droop. Get me pictures of it.

http://i32.tinypic.com/iy37np.jpg

Forgot I had a pic already.

It actually sits almost an inch higher now, the control arm is further down at an angle and the spindle is resting on the frame.

Plan is to extend the ball joint mounting part of the arm down, with a steel pipe. About 3" lower.

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6977/fordranger02controlarmw.jpg

[enkeivette]

I know my welder won't weld steel that thick, but I think welding over and under will do the trick. But, I will probably only be able to weld the outside of the pipe around the ball joint mounting surface. Unless I cut the pipe in half and weld inside, then weld the pipe together.

[enkeivette]

Looking at this, maybe I should just weld on some 3/16 plates and try moving all of the mounting points out 1 1/2 inches. I think that would work if there was enough adjustment in the steering to move out that far.

[94cobra69ss396]

Take a look at this Explorer for idea's on how to widen it. I wouldn't try to modify the stock upper arm, just make a new one. This is what we have planned for Eric's Explorer but we are going to widen it 4 inches on each side I think. I'm still in the planning stages.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256402

[Leedom]

Looking at this, maybe I should just weld on some 3/16 plates and try moving all of the mounting points out 1 1/2 inches. I think that would work if there was enough adjustment in the steering to move out that far.

You may need fiberglass fenders if you do that unless you have some major clearance.

[94cobra69ss396]

He's running full size 1500 coils in the front. I doubt the front compresses more than a 3 or 4 inches. I had a buddy who did that with his S10 back around '95-'96 and it was horrible. He had a shop build upper and lower A arms for it along with a full engine cage but he threw in the 1500 coils to lift it. The front wouldn't travel more than a few inches and the first time we took it out to Barstow the drivers side shock mount broke off the engine cage and dented his hood.

[enkeivette]

If he had a normal ball joint I could make arms for him, but he has this strange ass one. Rather than being threaded it is smooth and has a dick head, and a bolt slips in the spindle that slides in the groove between the dick head and the shaft, holding it in place.

If the spindle accepted a normal thread ball joint we could just get some random bolt on ball joints from autozone and make some arms with tube and rod ends.

[94cobra69ss396]

Did you look at the Explorer in the link? The Explorers have the same ball joint. I haven't looked at that yet on Eric's to figure out what I'm going to do because I'm still playing with angles on the upper and lower to make sure the stock mounting points will work.

[enkeivette]

Did you look at the Explorer in the link? The Explorers have the same ball joint. I haven't looked at that yet on Eric's to figure out what I'm going to do because I'm still playing with angles on the upper and lower to make sure the stock mounting points will work.

Yeah he just used a rod end in the spindle instead, but rod ends are threaded. So I have no idea how he did that.

[enkeivette]

I'm still nervous about cutting these upper control arms. I wouldn't mind cutting the lowers at all, because there is so much surface area to extend and plate them, but the uppers... not so much.

I'm thinking about notching the frame and moving the upper mounts down, half way inside the frame. I could get some thick tube and weld it into the frame notches to patch it up.

[enkeivette]

Or maybe I should just cut the frame where it bows out around the coil, and weld a flat 3/16 plate right there instead. Just to give it clearance.

[94cobra69ss396]

Does it actually hit or is it just really close? He could always put a limit strap on it to keep it from hitting if it is.

[enkeivette]

Does it actually hit or is it just really close? He could always put a limit strap on it to keep it from hitting if it is.

It hits. I can compress it enough with my hands to make it hit. I found some fagtech and camburg arms used. I'm just going to tell him to buy those.

[94cobra69ss396]

What do you mean? When the suspension compresses the upper arm should move away from the frame. As the suspension extends it should move closer. If you put a jack under the crossmember and lift the front wheels off the ground does the upper arm and spindle touch the frame?

[Vettezuki]

. . I found some fagtech . .

:judge:

[enkeivette]

What do you mean? When the suspension compresses the upper arm should move away from the frame. As the suspension extends it should move closer. If you put a jack under the crossmember and lift the front wheels off the ground does the upper arm and spindle touch the frame?

Meant to say just by pulling on it. Yes, it will hang on the frame, before the tires are even off the ground.

[enkeivette]

Sooo... I redid all of the welds on my trailer. Didn't want any more crossmembers to fall off on the freeway. Haha.

And I figured since it is 3/16 to a 1/4 thick, I should turn the speed down and crank the voltage up.

So, all the way down at one, it feels like I'm getting really good penetration and melting the metal down deep, but, it's impossible to law a nice bead down. It's mainly spatter and melting the parent material.

5 is about as slow as I can go while still getting a nice bead. But still at 5 there is a ton of spatter.

At 7, there is low spatter, a nice bead and I can move at a decent pace. But I'm worried I'm not penetrating deep enough with the molten metal at that speed. Am I?

Am I just moving too fast at the slower speeds? What's up?

[enkeivette]

This guy doesn't move back to forth, he makes loops. But it looks pro.

YouTube - Mig Welding Technique Taught by Old Timer

[94cobra69ss396]

Sooo... I redid all of the welds on my trailer. Didn't want any more crossmembers to fall off on the freeway. Haha.

And I figured since it is 3/16 to a 1/4 thick, I should turn the speed down and crank the voltage up.

So, all the way down at one, it feels like I'm getting really good penetration and melting the metal down deep, but, it's impossible to law a nice bead down. It's mainly spatter and melting the parent material.

5 is about as slow as I can go while still getting a nice bead. But still at 5 there is a ton of spatter.

At 7, there is low spatter, a nice bead and I can move at a decent pace. But I'm worried I'm not penetrating deep enough with the molten metal at that speed. Am I?

Am I just moving too fast at the slower speeds? What's up?

Get some scrap metal that is the thickness that you want to weld. Then turn the heat up and wire speed up to the recommended for your machine. Then start running weld on the metal while adjusting the wire speed until it sounds like sizzling bacon. That's what I did on mine and it turned out that I had to drop the wire speed a little from what the recommended speed was.

[enkeivette]

Did you see how pissed off people got when I asked to weed out the non-welders? That place is becoming like CF, full of people ready to talk smack that don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

I think other than you, one guy in there replied that he knew how to weld and gave a decent explanation. People got pissed! Hit em where it hurts I guess.

Next time I'm going to post in the fabrication section. I thought that there would at least be a few other guys like you with some skill in there, guess not.


That place is home to those who pay fab shops to install their shit. Useless forum for suspension advice. I mean, if my suggestion was really that bad, why didn't people jump in a describe how to build/ modify arms to use the stock spring pocket? Because no one in there knows! I know people have done it.

[enkeivette]

Also I've been watching more welding videos, saw a usefull technique for uphill welding. Make an upside down V as you work your way up, pausing on the outsides, but not in the center. Doing this prevents the metal from pooling up from gravity.

I want to try it out. Think I'll do some vertical plate braces on my trailer. That thing is going to be bullet proof.



Also, found some Fagtech arms, trying to buy them. I know it won't prevent the spindle from hitting the frame at droop, but by lowering the BJ it has got to make the arm more perpendicular to the ground and with the added camber, give better clearance than what he has now.