CARB swap rules

[enkeivette]

Didn't I argue with you about this Ben? Saying that you can smog a car with an LS as long as it was newer than your model year, even if it didn't come with a V8 configuration?

[Vettezuki]

Didn't I argue with you about this Ben? Saying that you can smog a car with an LS as long as it was newer than your model year, even if it didn't come with a V8 configuration?

Yes you did. He should go to that ref because I gauran-fuc*ing-tee it'll get bounced from other refs. I looked into this A LOT and talked to refs, who said no. Get that sticker. It's gold.

[Vettezuki]

Keep in mind I actually did this through the fully legal ref process, it's not speculative. I put a modern V8 into a C3 Vette.

No shit the ref made me:

- Relabel the check engine light
- Get a Charcoal canister from a Camaro (declared vehicle) because that charcoal canister is, well, a canister with charcoal in it just like the one I had

But my personal favorite:
- I upgraded the PVC system to the later Vette style, not the 2001 Camaro as my declaration was. He made me put on the older oil burning system. . . seriously.

They can be very pedantic. So if you found a ref that will let a V8 fly in an RX DO IT NOW.

[enkeivette]

Yes you did. He should go to that ref because I gauran-fuc*ing-tee it'll get bounced from other refs. I looked into this A LOT and talked to refs, who said no. Get that sticker. It's gold.

I knew I read that law correctly. You can't rely on those who enforce the law. They don't know it well. After a semester of Criminal Procedure I can attest to this.

[kdracer73]

And remember, the seller caries ALL responsibilty for car being smog legal. According to the instructor in my update smog license class, under the law, no such thing called " as is " for smog. He stated cases where the seller sold a car without a smog cert. The buyers failed smog, had car repaired, and sued the seller for cost of repairs and won. Could be instructor BS, trying to scare techs.

In my California BAR Smog tech newsletter, they just had a article where the enforcement agency is buying cars off criagslist and Autotrader that are not smog legal , but have a smog cert. Then they go after the seller and the tech that passed them. One of the cars in the article was a LS motor in a 240sx that was not legal. Fines run into $15,000-$20,000 range. And can be charged a felony . :notme:

[Vettezuki]

:soapbox:

[enkeivette]

And remember, the seller caries ALL responsibilty for car being smog legal. According to the instructor in my update smog license class, under the law, no such thing called " as is " for smog. He stated cases where the seller sold a car without a smog cert. The buyers failed smog, had car repaired, and sued the seller for cost of repairs and won. Could be instructor BS, trying to scare techs.

In my California BAR Smog tech newsletter, they just had a article where the enforcement agency is buying cars off criagslist and Autotrader that are not smog legal , but have a smog cert. Then they go after the seller and the tech that passed them. One of the cars in the article was a LS motor in a 240sx that was not legal. Fines run into $15,000-$20,000 range. And can be charged a felony . :notme:

You should be fine if you sell it as non-op. If you're really scared just have them sign something acknowledging that it's a project car not not street legal.

You really think it would fly if I bought a purpose built race car and then sued the owner because it didn't smog?

Contracts just need to be sufficiently definite.

[kdracer73]

You should be fine if you sell it as non-op. If you're really scared just have them sign something acknowledging that it's a project car not not street legal.

You really think it would fly if I bought a purpose built race car and then sued the owner because it didn't smog?

Contracts just need to be sufficiently definite.

I thought this thread was about smog rules and swaps. Not race cars, that do not apply to smog rules:judge: . If you wanna drive on the street, gotta be smogged. Unless it is older than 75.

"You should be fine if you sell it as non-op"


"cases where the seller sold a car without a smog cert. The buyers failed smog, had car repaired, and sued the seller for cost of repairs and won. Could be instructor BS, trying to scare techs. "

I put the disclaimer in about the instructor BS for that reason. When I get time , I will research what the state says.

[ZexGX]

I got the sticker for my swap. Definitely worth more than it's weight in gold. If you do ANY engine swapping from one model engine to another model engine, even if it is the same generic "kind" of engine that the car had (I4, I6, V6, V8), you officially need to have it approved by a Referee. If it is newer than 1976 then this law applies. The engine must be the same year or newer than the target vehicle, and the engine must retain all original emissions controls from the vehicle you got the engine from. If it was an OBD2 vehicle then you have to swap over all OBD2 electronic/EVAP/fuel systems & OEM/CARB approved exhaust FROM THE DONOR VEHICLE to the end of the catalytic converters - any exhaust after the catalytic converters is legal as long as it is within the dB limits, but that is something for CHP to check - not the Referee. They do check serial numbers on the engine & PCM, so be sure to state exactly what vehicle you got it from (VIN). They also do a visual inspection for OEM type Cats. I do not believe they do sniffer tests at Referee stations (they didn't do it for mine) but they do visual and PCM checks. For example, if you have the rear O2 sensors tuned out it will show up as Not Ready and likely cause you to fail the inspection, since the Referee knows the donor vehicle is OBD2 and is supposed to have rear o2s.

Side note: my car was lowered so much that they didn't do a visual inspection on the charcoal canister or catalytic converter part numbers. He did ask me about the charcoal canister and fuel pump/lines and I told him the fuel pump/lines are different, but the wiring harness was correct for the new V8 pump/lines I swapped in and that the charcoal canister shouldn't be different and he agreed on that part. They also didn't put it on a lift/rack to inspect the underside, just inspected the engine/PCM.

This process is A LOT easier when it's a "bolt-in" type deal.

[ZexGX]

A list of what I swapped for a bolt-in smog legal swap on an F-body '99 3.8L V6 (L36) to '01 LS1:

V8 Radiator
V8 K-member + motor mounts
V8 engine
V8 stock exhaust manifolds
brand new OEM cats
brand new O2 sensors
transmission
engine bay wiring harness + computer
smog pump (AIS/AIR)
fuel lines
fuel pump
EVAP system
misc. wiring issues

If it wasn't an F-body I'd have to make sure the EVAP fuel system wiring and the EVAP [charcoal] canister was correctly installed and working and that the PCV/EGR/AIS[AIR] system was what came on the donor vehicle engine from the factory & was functioning properly. Having a VIN for the donor vehicle also helps the Referee quickly verify that parts aren't stolen. In my case, I had the pink slip.

[enkeivette]

My point, kdracer, is that if you can sell a "race" car that used to be a factory car, then you can sell anything conditionally.

I think the problem is when people try to sell the car as a legit street car with an oral acknowledgement that it won't smog. That's not legal.

But selling it as a non-street legal car, or non-op, (like the Snake) to a buyer that intends to run it on the street, somehow, does not obligate the seller to keep it legal.

[kdracer73]

^^ I would think that makes sense to me. But as we all know, sometimes the law might not make sense.
I have asked questions to the BAR reps that inspect us, and I can ask 3 inspectors the same question, and get one " I don't know" one " that is OK " and one " Do you want to go to jail? " So the rules are not that clear to them either.
I am still gonna look up what the deal is . If I can find it. The rules and regs book is 1 1/2 inches thick and I may get lost in the legalese and give up. The DMV site is no help. Only states seller is responsible in all cases.

[Vettezuki]

. . . I have asked questions to the BAR reps that inspect us, and I can ask 3 inspectors the same question, and get one " I don't know" one " that is OK " and one " Do you want to go to jail? " So the rules are not that clear to them either. . .

It's like the IRS and tax law (which is the worst). Of course when they get something wrong you lose and pay more or have to comply with something unnecessarily strict. When you get something wrong, you lose, pay even more, or even literally go to jail. :mad:

[kdracer73]

Found IT !! Lots of legal speak..... enkie may be able to translate better than me:nuts: I marked the important phrases.

This was under "dealer and wholesale transfers"



•If the record shows a valid PNO and a "transfer only" is being requested, a smog certification is not due for the transfer as long as the purchase date was after the vehicle expiration date.

— See section 11.050 for additional information on "transfer only."

This was under cvc for private party transfers

Chapter 2 TRANSFERS OF TITLE OR INTEREST

Article 2 ENDORSEMENT AND DELIVERY OF
DOCUMENTS
Section
5751.5. Transfer; statement; modification of emissions system;
form.
§ 5751.5. Transfer; statement; modification of emissions
system; form
(a) Upon transfer of the title or interest of the registered owner of
a motor vehicle that is subject to Part 5 (commencing with Section
43000) of Division 26 of the Health and Safety Code, if no certificate
of compliance or certificate of noncompliance is submitted to the
department pursuant to the exemptions described in paragraph (1) of
subdivision (d) of Section 4000.1, ( Posted Below )the transferor of that vehicle shall
sign and deliver to the transferee, upon completion of the transaction,
the original copy of a statement, :judge::judge:under penalty of perjury, that he or
she has not modified the emissions system of the vehicle and does not
have any personal knowledge of anyone else modifying the system:judge: in
a manner that causes the emission system to fail to qualify for the
issuance of a certificate of compliance pursuant to Section 44015 of
the Health and Safety Code. The transferor shall keep a duplicate copy
of the statement delivered to the transferee pursuant to this section.
The department shall prescribe and make available to transferors the
necessary forms to comply with this subdivision.
(b) Any form prescribed by the department pursuant to subdivision
(a) shall contain the following statement and a space for the signatures
of the transferor and transferee at the end of the statement:
“WARNING TO THE BUYER
“A valid certificate of compliance was submitted to the
Department of Motor Vehicles with an application for the renewal of
registration of this vehicle. If an application for transfer is submitted
to the department within the 90–day validity period of the smog
certification, no new smog certification will be required. However, at
present, you may be purchasing a vehicle that may not be in
compliance with specified emission standards.
“By signing this statement, you acknowledge that the seller is not
required to provide you with an additional certificate of compliance
prior to the completion of this transaction.
“You may have this vehicle tested at a licensed smog check station
prior to completion of this transaction to verify compliance. If the
vehicle passes the test, you shall be responsible for the costs of the test.
:judge::judge:If the vehicle fails the test, the seller is obligated to reimburse you the
cost of having the vehicle tested and, without expense to you, must
have the vehicle repaired to comply with specified emission standards
prior to completion of this transaction.:judge::judge:
(Transferor) (Date)
(Transferee) (Date)”
(Added by Stats.1993, c. 958 (S.B.575), § 2. Amended by Stats.2002,
c. 127 (A.B.2303), § 2; Stats.2004, c. 650 (A.B.3047), § 7.)



4000.1. Certificate of compliance or noncompliance;
statement in lieu of certificate; exemptions;
testing for collector motor vehicle
(a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (b), (c), or (d) of
this section, or subdivision (b) of Section 43654 of the Health and
Safety Code, the department shall require upon initial registration, and
upon transfer of ownership and registration, of any motor vehicle
subject to Part 5 (commencing with Section 43000) of Division 26 of
the Health and Safety Code, a valid certificate of compliance or a
certificate of noncompliance, as appropriate, issued in accordance
with Section 44015 of the Health and Safety Code.
(b) With respect to new motor vehicles certified pursuant to
Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 43100) of Part 5 of Division 26
of the Health and Safety Code, the department shall accept a statement
completed pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 24007 in lieu of the
certificate of compliance.
(c) For purposes of determining the validity of a certificate of
compliance or noncompliance submitted in compliance with the
requirements of this section, the definitions of new and used motor
vehicle contained in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 39010) of
Part 1 of Division 26 of the Health and Safety Code shall control.
(d) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a transfer of ownership and
registration under any of the following circumstances:
(1) The initial application for transfer is submitted within the
90–day validity period of a smog certificate as specified in Section
44015 of the Health and Safety Code.
(2) The transferor is the parent, grandparent, sibling, child,
grandchild, or spouse of the transferee.
(3) A motor vehicle registered to a sole proprietorship is transferred
to the proprietor as owner.
(4) The transfer is between companies the principal business of
which is leasing motor vehicles, if there is no change in the lessee or
operator of the motor vehicle or between the lessor and the person who
has been, for at least one year, the lessee’s operator of the motor
vehicle.
(5) The transfer is between the lessor and lessee of the motor
vehicle, if there is no change in the lessee or operator of the motor
vehicle.
(6) The motor vehicle was manufactured prior to the 1976
model–year.
(7) Beginning January 1, 2005, the transfer is for a motor vehicle
that is four or less model–years old. The department shall impose a fee
of eight dollars ($8) on the transferee of a motor vehicle that is four
or less model–years old. Revenues generated from the imposition of
that fee shall be deposited into the Vehicle Inspection and Repair
Fund.
(e) The State Air Resources Board, under Part 5 (commencing with
Section 43000) of Division 26 of the Health and Safety Code, may
exempt designated classifications of motor vehicles from subdivision
(a) as it deems necessary, and shall notify the department of that
action.
(f) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a motor vehicle when an
additional individual is added as a registered owner of the motor
vehicle.
(g) For purposes of subdivision (a), any collector motor vehicle, as
defined in Section 259, is exempt from those portions of the test
required by subdivision (f) of Section 44012 of the Health and Safety
Code, if the collector motor vehicle meets all of the following criteria:
(1) Submission of proof that the motor vehicle is insured as a
collector motor vehicle, as shall be required by regulation of the
bureau.
(2) The motor vehicle is at least 35 model–years old.
(3) The motor vehicle complies with the exhaust emissions
standards for that motor vehicle’s class and model year as prescribed
by the department, and the motor vehicle passes a functional
inspection of the fuel cap and a visual inspection for liquid fuel leaks.