Service Intervals:

[Leedom]

My co-worker took her car to the local service station to get an oil change and see what else she might need. She had 46K on her car and they recommended a transmission fluid change (automatic) . I told her to go for it since she had a decent amount of miles on the car and she had never done it. I would rather change fluid more often than replace a tranny. She tells me the next day that her boyfriend thinks I am an idiot and that she did not need to change her transmission fluid until 100K. I just said he can go right ahead and do that. My questions is, that with car makes recommended oil changes at 10-15K now are some of the other intervals changing? Have oils gotten that good that the mileage intervals are going up of is this an automotive engineering feet? How often do you change your fluids?

This whole situation just got me thinking about some of these things.

[BRIAN]

Haha your not a COMPLETE idiot but it wasn't a good idea to change the oil so soon. You may find this hard to believe but that actually creates more wear on the tranny. What car we talking about? I know Toyota's go for 100K and many other makes seem to be catching on. Tune up's are where mechanics make there money at. The more you come back the more they make, the better you feel especially after the placebo effect when you first drive it again.

[enkeivette]

I think the service interval for an Auto for my car is about 40K, 60K for the manual. But I wouldn't change it that soon.

Auto transmissions are funny. If you wait too long to change the fluid, it's actually better not to change it. Once enough crud builds up, changing the fluid just sets it loose and it will fu*k up your trans.

Moral of the story, don't give advice to girls with boyfriends. Aata.

[Vettezuki]

. . Moral of the story, don't give advice to girls with boyfriends. Aata.

Good call.

[BRUTAL64]

Moral of the story, don't give advice to girls with boyfriends. Aata.

I'd have to agree. In the end who is this girl going to side with--Adam or her boyfriend? I probably would have given the same advice Adam did. I have given advice to women before and their idiot boy friends would give them shit for it. I am kinda cute so I always thought it was a jealousy thing.:sm_laughing:

Remember this: "No good deed goes unpunished".:)

[94cobra69ss396]

Haha your not a COMPLETE idiot but it wasn't a good idea to change the oil so soon. You may find this hard to believe but that actually creates more wear on the tranny. What car we talking about? I know Toyota's go for 100K and many other makes seem to be catching on. Tune up's are where mechanics make there money at. The more you come back the more they make, the better you feel especially after the placebo effect when you first drive it again.

That's funny because I only have 127,000 miles on my Explorer and just had to put in a new transmission. I had a trans flush done at about 90,000 and I think I should have done it sooner.

Maybe Phil will chime in later and tell us what Chevrolet's intervals are but I can tell you I will be changing the fluid in the Explorer every 50,000. My first change on the new trans will be after 1000.

[BRIAN]

What are the intervals for your Explorer and is it older than 2000? A friend's 94' Explorer blew through two trannys until I put together a cooler for the system.

Interesting that the Explorer comes up because that same friend sent me this a couple months ago :huh:
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1036/top-cash-for-clunkers-trade-ins-and-new-cars/

[94cobra69ss396]

I know and it worked out good for me because I got new seats and doors for mine off of one that was at the wrecking yard. I couldn't believe how good of shape a lot of these trucks are in that they're just going to crush.

Mine is a '95 and I don't know what the interval is for the trans but I'm sticking with 50,000. My truck gets used hard offroad and I don't want to replace another trans.

[Vettezuki]

I know and it worked out good for me because I got new seats and doors for mine off of one that was at the wrecking yard. I couldn't believe how good of shape a lot of these trucks are in that they're just going to crush.

Mine is a '95 and I don't know what the interval is for the trans but I'm sticking with 50,000. My truck gets used hard offroad and I don't want to replace another trans.

We're going to need an 8.8 LSD IRS out of one of those relatively soon. If you see a deal too good to pass up (couple hundred bucks :huh:), pull the trigger and I'll reimburse you for RX-Snake.

[94cobra69ss396]

We're going to need an 8.8 LSD IRS out of one of those relatively soon. If you see a deal too good to pass up (couple hundred bucks :huh:), pull the trigger and I'll reimburse you for RX-Snake.

The IRS didn't come out until '99 I think. All the ones that I found at the local yard had the solid axles in them.

[Damian]

My wife's Corolla needs it changed at 100k, Toyota uses some special auto tranny fluid that I could only get at Toyota. It was only like $5 a quart, so it wasnt expensive at all.

[BRIAN]

That's funny because I only have 127,000 miles on my Explorer and just had to put in a new transmission.

My truck gets used hard offroad and I don't want to replace another trans.

Hmmm now I'm laughing with you, heat likely killed your previous trans. Two things will break down oil, HEAT and CRUD. Your transmission, if your worried about reliability, should benefit from an oil analysis. You'll know all you need to know from your oil report to keep that tranny for good, even recommend you completely new service intervals based on the report. Which will clearly show your motorsport is breaking down the oil sooner than average. Does your 95' come with a cooler standard now?

You can benefit by using an aftermarket cooler of your choice and also to keep maintain even cleaner add a spin on filter head using any regular oil filter also of your choice. :)

[BADDASSC6]

Dude NO WAY should you go 100k miles between transmission services. I know that Toyota may say it's ok, but don't think it's ok unless your OWNER'S MANUAL states.

Always check the intervals:
My dodge truck states to do a complete transmission flush and fulter replacement every 30k mi. Oil changes every 5k

The T-56 in the vette is like every 100K, but that's a manual. Oil changes every 5K

My GF Jetta has oil changes every 10K!

My HS buddy how is a toyota certified mechanic stated that even though they don't change the fluid unit 100K. If anything goes wrong they replace the entire unit. The most common problem with the Toyota trannies are the valve bodies not functioning because they get clogged.

Changing the fluid at earlier intervals WILL NOT cause additional damage.


Ron here is rule of thumb when conducting transmission service: "Keep doing whatever you've been doing".

If you have flushed the fluid in the unit then don't. If you do then all the debris and sediment that has built up in the unit will be moved by the more viscous newer fluid and clog the valve body. You will likely develope leaks from seals and tolerances that where worn, but the old dirty thicker fuild could not seap through.

I just spent $1200 on a new valve body for my truck. I ALWAYS had the transmission fluid flushed within the recommended interval by jiffylube. Unfortunately they don't change the filters.

[enkeivette]

I am kinda cute so I always thought it was a jealousy thing.

:rolling: Yes! You are my hero Glenn.

[enkeivette]

If you have flushed the fluid in the unit then don't. If you do then all the debris and sediment that has built up in the unit will be moved by the more viscous newer fluid and clog the valve body.

I think you meant to say haven't.

Auto transmissions are funny. If you wait too long to change the fluid, it's actually better not to change it. Once enough crud builds up, changing the fluid just sets it loose and it will fu*k up your trans.

[BRUTAL64]

:rolling: Yes! You are my hero Glenn.

All my words of "wisdom" :lmfao: and the only two things I get quoted about is;
"want naked" by Vettesuki and "I'm kinda cute" from you. I see how it is.:rolleyes:

[enkeivette]

All my words of "wisdom" :lmfao: and the only two things I get quoted about is;
"want naked" by Vettesuki and "I'm kinda cute" from you. I see how it is.:rolleyes:

Brains or beauty, you can't have both Glenn. And we see a large piece of sexy man goodness above all else.

[BRUTAL64]

Brains or beauty, you can't have both Glenn. And we see a large piece of sexy man goodness above all else.

I'll guess I'll go with being "Eye Candy". So that's makes me a "Trophy Husband" for Darlene? :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[enkeivette]

I'll guess I'll go with being "Eye Candy". So that's makes me a "Trophy Husband" for Darlene? :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

No doubt. :winner:

[Vettezuki]

All my words of "wisdom" :lmfao: and the only two things I get quoted about is;
"want naked" by Vettesuki and "I'm kinda cute" from you. I see how it is.:rolleyes:

Technically your original quote was:

"I don't need quality in my thinking, I need naked."

[enkeivette]

Technically your original quote was:

"I don't need quality in my thinking, I need naked."

Hahahahahaha

[BRUTAL64]

Technically your original quote was:

"I don't need quality in my thinking, I need naked."

Ok, I stand corrected.;)

[BADDASSC6]

I think you meant to say haven't.

Good catch. My bad.

[94cobra69ss396]

Good catch. My bad.

No worries I knew what you meant.

[Throttle Crazy]

Almost all GM cars and light trucks state in the owners manual 100,000
miles for trans. service with filter, "under normal driving conditions". It also gives a 50,000 mile service interval "under severe driving conditions". If you live in California your driving conditions meet severe criteria. Here is the criteria.
• In heavy city traffic where the outside temperature regularly reaches 90°F (32°C) or higher.


• In hilly or mountainous terrain.


• When doing frequent trailer towing.


• Uses such as found in taxi, police or delivery service.

[Throttle Crazy]

Allison transmissions the service interval for spin on filter and fluid change is every 50,000 miles " under normal driving conditions".
Every 25,000 miles, under the same severe driving conditions mentioned above.

[Vettezuki]

What about manual?

[Throttle Crazy]

What about manual?

All models NEVER!

Rear diff. 50,000 under severe driving.

[Vettezuki]

All models NEVER!

Ruh-Roh. Well, the first time was because I snapped off the tailshaft section so it kinda drained itself. I think when it was put back together they used synthetic atf or something like that. I noticed it wasn't as smooth (originally it used whatever GM recommended). So I changed that with what an old timer petro chemical engineer, and owner of Go Pure Power (http://www.gopurepower.com/) recommended. I think it was 50/50 90/80w gear oil (had some special cert can't remember) and non-synthetic auto fluid. Well hot damn old timer, it did shift smoother and quieter.

[enkeivette]

Ruh-Roh. Well, the first time was because I snapped off the tailshaft section so it kinda drained itself. I think when it was put back together they used synthetic atf or something like that. I noticed it wasn't as smooth (originally it used whatever GM recommended). So I changed that with what an old timer petro chemical engineer, and owner of Go Pure Power (http://www.gopurepower.com/) recommended. I think it was 50/50 90/80w gear oil (had some special cert can't remember) and non-synthetic auto fluid. Well hot damn old timer, it did shift smoother and quieter.

You really need to get off this organic oil high. Run organic for 6 months and watch as the tar spills out of your oil pan, run synthetic for 6 months and you'll feel like you're throwing away perfectly good oil when you drain it.

Do you really think refined goo from the ground is going to work better than something that was chemically engineered in a lab for a specific purpose?

FYI, all T56 transmissions run ATF Dexron 4. I use Redline.

[Vettezuki]

You really need to get off this organic oil high. Run organic for 6 months and watch as the tar spills out of your oil pan, run synthetic for 6 months and you'll feel like you're throwing away perfectly good oil when you drain it.


Do you really think refined goo from the ground is going to work better than something that was chemically engineered in a lab for a specific purpose?

FYI, all T56 transmissions run ATF Dexron 4. I use Redline.



Oils lubricate. All refined oils are "engineered" for a purpose. No doubt the Gucci oils are great. But they're just not necessary unless you pushing continuous high temps or are too lazy to change your oil The trans runs smooth, the engine is fine and oil looks fine coming out at 3 months and it costs peanuts per quart by comparison. If I get into road racing of any kind, yes I'll go to the fully synthetic.

[BRIAN]

Almost all GM cars and light trucks state in the owners manual 100,000
miles for trans. service with filter, "under normal driving conditions". It also gives a 50,000 mile service interval "under severe driving conditions". If you live in California your driving conditions meet severe criteria. Here is the criteria.
• In heavy city traffic where the outside temperature regularly reaches 90°F (32°C) or higher.


• In hilly or mountainous terrain.


• When doing frequent trailer towing.


• Uses such as found in taxi, police or delivery service.

Great info thank you, can you post the direct link to this please though?

Allison transmissions the service interval for spin on filter and fluid change is every 50,000 miles " under normal driving conditions".
Every 25,000 miles, under the same severe driving conditions mentioned above.
He's running an Allison's transmission now? With Spin on filters? Last I check Allison had a calculator to provide service intervals for specific users based on many factors. Also which Allison trans are you talking about?

[BRIAN]

But they're just not necessary unless you pushing continuous high temps or are too lazy to change your oil
Your right Ben, oils do lubricate. How well they lubricate at start up is the difference between Mineral oil and Synthetic. You know an engine receives most of it's wear on start up, therefore the quicker your oil flows into all parts of your motor the longer life it will have. You'll also see other benefits from this, gas mileage ect. In other words your extending the life of your motor.

[94cobra69ss396]

Great info thank you, can you post the direct link to this please though?


He's running an Allison's transmission now? With Spin on filters? Last I check Allison had a calculator to provide service intervals for specific users based on many factors. Also which Allison trans are you talking about?

Throttle Crazy is the Assistant Service Manager at a Chevrolet dealer. That's how he knows the service intervals.

The Allison he's referring to is behind the Duramax engines. Not sure what model but I'm sure he'll respond.

[Vettezuki]

Your right Ben, oils do lubricate. How well they lubricate at start up is the difference between Mineral oil and Synthetic.

Separate from the viscity@temp and things like TBN rating?

But yes a 5/20 is going to lubricate faster than a 15/40, that's for sure.

[enkeivette]

Oils lubricate. All refined oils are "engineered" for a purpose. No doubt the Gucci oils are great. But they're just not necessary unless you pushing continuous high temps or are too lazy to change your oil The trans runs smooth, the engine is fine and oil looks fine coming out at 3 months and it costs peanuts per quart by comparison. If I get into road racing of any kind, yes I'll go to the fully synthetic.

Service interval for synthetic is twice as long as organic, but it does not cost twice as much for Mobil 1 including the cost of a filter. Therefore, it is cheaper. I change the oil in my Neon only every 6 months, and I go about that long for the Vette too, depending on how much I've been driving it.

Organic oil thickens up and cakes around all of the moving parts. Let's see a pic of your rockers. Mine are clean, always.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/574/DSC00083.JPG

[big2bird]

Haha your not a COMPLETE idiot but it wasn't a good idea to change the oil so soon. You may find this hard to believe but that actually creates more wear on the tranny.

I find this statement so far from the truith, I don't know where to begin.:uh:

[big2bird]

My co-worker took her car to the local service station to get an oil change and see what else she might need. She had 46K on her car and they recommended a transmission fluid change (automatic) . I told her to go for it since she had a decent amount of miles on the car and she had never done it. I would rather change fluid more often than replace a tranny. She tells me the next day that her boyfriend thinks I am an idiot and that she did not need to change her transmission fluid until 100K. I just said he can go right ahead and do that. My questions is, that with car makes recommended oil changes at 10-15K now are some of the other intervals changing? Have oils gotten that good that the mileage intervals are going up of is this an automotive engineering feet? How often do you change your fluids?

This whole situation just got me thinking about some of these things.

I change my auto tranny fluid every 24,000 miles, or every other year. I have two friends that rebuild trannys for a living, and that is what they recommend. I'll go with their suggestions.:D

[BRIAN]

I find this statement so far from the truth, I don't know where to begin.:uh:
LOL I thought the same thing when I first started out. It's even harder to explain to the older community because of course they've been doing this much longer and "know" what works for them.

Now until you find somewhere to start I won't know where to begin helping you to understand or helping make myself look more and more like an ass. I'm pretty sure that's what everyone thinks of my work here so far.

[Throttle Crazy]

Great info thank you, can you post the direct link to this please though?
Sorry, this info is from a dealer only sight. No link! It is straight out of the owners manual.

He's running an Allison's transmission now? With Spin on filters? Last I check Allison had a calculator to provide service intervals for specific users based on many factors. Also which Allison trans are you talking about?

I am refering to the GM service interval for the 1000 series Allison in the Silverado. Medium duty, heavy duty and motorhomes with Allison transmissions are now coming with Allisons Tran-synd synthetic fluid and the service interval is longer on the fluid but the spin on filter replacement should stay the same. The Trans-synd fluid works great. When I get a customer who does alot of heavy towing and complains of trans getting hot while pulling grades, I recomend flushing out the trans. switching to Trans-synd and we convert to the medium duty pan and filter for more fluid capacity. Customers have told me they see as much as a 40 deg. F temp decrease.

[Throttle Crazy]

Throttle Crazy is the Assistant Service Manager at a Chevrolet dealer. That's how he knows the service intervals.

I am the Service Manager. Paul is Service/Body shop Director.

[BRIAN]

Separate from the viscity@temp and things like TBN rating?

Sorry forgot to answer this.

Among other things yes. A 5w-30 mineral oil will still has about the same characteristics of a 5w-30 synthetic. Difference is in the morning the synthetic will be less honey like. Also the synthetic will probably get to opt temp slightly sooner. TBN will depend on the oil additives present in the bottle from the get go. Difference here is how long they last before they break down from heat, and well synthetic can take the heat for longer;)

[BRIAN]

I am refering to the GM service interval for the 1000 series Allison in the Silverado. Medium duty, heavy duty and motorhomes with Allison transmissions are now coming with Allisons Tran-synd synthetic fluid and the service interval is longer on the fluid but the spin on filter replacement should stay the same. The Trans-synd fluid works great. When I get a customer who does alot of heavy towing and complains of trans getting hot while pulling grades, I recomend flushing out the trans. switching to Trans-synd and we convert to the medium duty pan and filter for more fluid capacity. Customers have told me they see as much as a 40 deg. F temp decrease.

Good stuff, especially from a dealer.:thumbs_up:

[Vettezuki]

. . . Among other things yes.

Like what?

A 5w-30 mineral oil will still has about the same characteristics of a 5w-30 synthetic. Difference is in the morning the synthetic will be less honey like.

What do you mean honey like other than measured viscosity.


Also the synthetic will probably get to opt temp slightly sooner.

I can imagine this is possible but do you know why?


TBN will depend on the oil additives present in the bottle from the get go. Difference here is how long they last before they break down from heat, and well synthetic can take the heat for longer;)

That makes sense.

[enkeivette]

Now until you find somewhere to start I won't know where to begin helping you to understand or helping make myself look more and more like an ass. I'm pretty sure that's what everyone thinks of my work here so far.

I don't.

[enkeivette]

Ben, have you seen my FB quote?

[big2bird]

LOL I thought the same thing when I first started out. It's even harder to explain to the older community because of course they've been doing this much longer and "know" what works for them.

Now until you find somewhere to start I won't know where to begin helping you to understand or helping make myself look more and more like an ass. I'm pretty sure that's what everyone thinks of my work here so far.

Okay. Let's begin with "Changing tranny fluid too soon will accelerate wear."
(I may be mis-quoting/paraphrasing here).

I'll abstain from the engine oil discussion that has been beaten to death elsewhere.

[Vettezuki]

Ben, have you seen my FB quote?

The one about a new law?

[enkeivette]

The one about a new law?

No, on my page. Left margin.

[Vettezuki]

No, on my page. Left margin.

I knew you were a man of refined culture and taste. :)

[BRIAN]

Okay. Let's begin with "Changing tranny fluid too soon will accelerate wear."

Alrighty, as you may or may not know oils come present with specially formulated additives for whatever application. In this case an auto transmission. Automotive manufactures know this and know that there transmissions require this grade of oil with these certain additives to fulfill there service intervals, whether they be 30K or 100K. If your transmission service is due every 30K in "normal driving conditions" then "flushing" your tranny at say half of that 15K, can actually cause more wear on the components, mainly clutches.


WHY???? How can changing my fluid much sooner possibly affect my trans even more??? ADDITIVES

Oil additives are activated by heat and pressure. Due to additives having to hold up over time take certain time periods to actually become active at protecting your transmission. They take time to bond to the wear metals.

Back to work, i'll answer your questions tonight Ben and add some more to this also. :)

Continued 6:01 PM : So to help make this clear. The first couple thousand miles on new oil is where about 90% (give or take) of wear occurs. As the miles rack up additives become more and more present doing what they are formulated to due, protect your transmission. This also goes for motors and diffs with some different exceptions of course. So now you can see why changing your oil too soon can lead to "accelerated wear." It's the repeated early service of the trans that puts the the oil in the "activation period" or "break in period" over and over again increasing wear. Failing to follow the guidelines of the manufacture.

Keep in mind about all this, these are pretty much today's current oils not late 80's or early 90's oils. Oils have come along way and new advancements have been made hence these absurd 100k service intervals and 10K motor oil services. At the end of the day though each shift is one less shift for the tranny regardless, it's still man made don't try to go 200K on the poor things.

I won't be surprised if any of you didn't follow what I'm saying in previous posts like knowing oils had a "break in period" so if I get reply's about that's bull shit this and that, it's okay. You don't have to follow what I'm saying, choose to believe what you want. I'm here because I enjoy checking out your bitchin cars. :)

Want to learn more than you could ever imagine check these out.
http://www.sae.org/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

Want to do your own studies try them out.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

[BRIAN]

Like what?
MANY many many things that make my head hurt from thinking about it all and how they effect each other. This is for motor which I know more about than auto transmissions by the way. A motor with synthetic oil will have an easier time turning over, so that means your starter needs less power to get you going. The starter needs less power so now that's less power taken from the battery. The battery was discharged less, now the alternator won't take as much hp from your motor to recharge. You see were I'm going with this. This in effect will make all these components last longer. Oh and since the alternator didn't work too hard that means better MPG:D

What do you mean honey like other than measured viscosity.
Yeah.......honey like. Thickening of the oil after shut down. Both oils run at about 10cst during opt temp. The next morning after shut down will be a different story. The mineral oil will thicken to say 75cst while a synthetic will only thicken to 50 cst (fictional numbers guys). Is that clear? Stuff can sometimes be the opposite of common thinking.

I can imagine this is possible but do you know why?

Simply because synthetic oil is a better "coolant" for the motor. Heat from moving parts is more easily transferred to the synthetic oil. Oil is a cooling lubricant.

[joedls]

The battery was discharged less, now the alternator won't take as much hp from your motor to recharge. You see were I'm going with this. This in effect will make all these components last longer. Oh and since the alternator didn't work too hard that means better MPG:D



:bsflag::pot_stir:

[Vettezuki]

Yeah.......honey like. Thickening of the oil after shut down. Both oils run at about 10cst during opt temp. The next morning after shut down will be a different story. The mineral oil will thicken to say 75cst while a synthetic will only thicken to 50 cst (fictional numbers guys). Is that clear? Stuff can sometimes be the opposite of common thinking.

What's cst? How is this different than viscosity (measure of rate of flow as a function of thickness right?)


Simply because synthetic oil is a better "coolant" for the motor. Heat from moving parts is more easily transferred to the synthetic oil. Oil is a cooling lubricant.

Any idea what the differential of thermal conductivity and specific heat is synthetic vs. mineral? That would be useful objective information.

I'm not breaking your balls, just that if these things are true it's because of XYZ and would like to know what they are. I certainly understand the idea that synthetic oils hold together (resist breakdown) far better under higher temp and that alone is a big deal.

[BRIAN]

:bsflag::pot_stir:
Was wondering how long a post like this would come up. That's just one example of how far synthetic oil can reach out beneficially. Sounds stupid right, I'll try to find all the reports of other benefits.

What's cst? How is this different than viscosity (measure of rate of flow as a function of thickness right?)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity

Any idea what the differential of thermal conductivity and specific heat is synthetic vs. mineral? That would be useful objective information.

I don't sorry, at least not personally. I'll have to dig up test papers with stats and what not from engineers. These reports cost money to actually see, probably why the myths just won't go away. Who would pay to read someones science project haha.

I'm not breaking your balls
Your not, this happens most of the time. I've been told by previous professors to keep my mouth shut unless you want to beat a dead horse which I think is funny now.

I'll be changing the oil on my Lexus soon. Might get that oil analyzed and also get the new oil analyzed 1K miles into it to see which has more wear. Hopefully post my results in spring.

[BRUTAL64]

:popcorn:

[big2bird]

Alrighty, as you may or may not know oils come present with specially formulated additives for whatever application. In this case an auto transmission. Automotive manufactures know this and know that there transmissions require this grade of oil with these certain additives to fulfill there service intervals, whether they be 30K or 100K. If your transmission service is due every 30K in "normal driving conditions" then "flushing" your tranny at say half of that 15K, can actually cause more wear on the components, mainly clutches.


WHY???? How can changing my fluid much sooner possibly affect my trans even more??? ADDITIVES

Oil additives are activated by heat and pressure. Due to additives having to hold up over time take certain time periods to actually become active at protecting your transmission. They take time to bond to the wear metals.

Back to work, i'll answer your questions tonight Ben and add some more to this also. :)

Continued 6:01 PM : So to help make this clear. The first couple thousand miles on new oil is where about 90% (give or take) of wear occurs. As the miles rack up additives become more and more present doing what they are formulated to due, protect your transmission. This also goes for motors and diffs with some different exceptions of course. So now you can see why changing your oil too soon can lead to "accelerated wear." It's the repeated early service of the trans that puts the the oil in the "activation period" or "break in period" over and over again increasing wear. Failing to follow the guidelines of the manufacture.

Keep in mind about all this, these are pretty much today's current oils not late 80's or early 90's oils. Oils have come along way and new advancements have been made hence these absurd 100k service intervals and 10K motor oil services. At the end of the day though each shift is one less shift for the tranny regardless, it's still man made don't try to go 200K on the poor things.


Your right about one thing. I think your theory is a load of crap.
Can you point me to one case study that shows this is true, before I scan Ebay for the now highly desirable used tranny fluid?
Maybe I'll start manufacturing "pre-stressed" tranny fluid.:nuts:

[big2bird]

A motor with synthetic oil will have an easier time turning over, so that means your starter needs less power to get you going. The starter needs less power so now that's less power taken from the battery. The battery was discharged less, now the alternator won't take as much hp from your motor to recharge. You see were I'm going with this. This in effect will make all these components last longer. Oh and since the alternator didn't work too hard that means better MPG:D


:rolleyes: This reeks of "Wallstreet Marketing" B.S.

[big2bird]

Was wondering how long a post like this would come up. That's just one example of how far synthetic oil can reach out beneficially. Sounds stupid right, I'll try to find all the reports of other benefits.


You have to come up with something better than this. I have a hard time believing you actually posted it.
I believe a speck of flyshit on the hood would have more MPG impact.:rolling:

[joedls]

Was wondering how long a post like this would come up. That's just one example of how far synthetic oil can reach out beneficially. Sounds stupid right, I'll try to find all the reports of other benefits.




You actually believe that a battery, with a less than full charge, will cause more drag on an engine because the alternator is "working harder"? I'm not a very bright guy, so you'd have to explain this to me very simply, because I don't understand. As far as I know, the alternator is being driven by a belt that is being turned by the crank. This is always happening while the engine is turning, except for those alternators that have a clutch pulley. But the engagement of the clutch pulley has nothing to do with the output required of the alternator. And, as far as I know, the alternator doesn't have any internal parts that make it drag more or less, depending on required output.

So again, I'm not very bright, so please explain this to me.

[BRIAN]

Your right about one thing. I think your theory is a load of crap.
Thanks, luckily it's not my theory, if it even is a theory anymore.

Can you point me to one case study that shows this is true, before I scan Ebay for the now highly desirable used tranny fluid?
Maybe I'll start manufacturing "pre-stressed" tranny fluid.:nuts:
Find it yourself. If you see an article you want to read, before shelling out the cash try searching the document number on the net first. Might get lucky.
http://www.sae.org/servlets/SiteSearch?charset=iso-8859-1&ht=0&qp=&col=portal&qs=&sae_qt1=&qc=&pw=100%2525&ws=0&la=en&qm=0&st=1&nh=25&lk=1&rf=0&oq=&rq=0&si=1&ql=&jsp_name=simplesearch.jsp&qt=extended+oil+drains&ofType=ALL&x=0&y=0

You actually believe that a battery, with a less than full charge, will cause more drag on an engine because the alternator is "working harder"? I'm not a very bright guy, so you'd have to explain this to me very simply, because I don't understand. As far as I know, the alternator is being driven by a belt that is being turned by the crank. This is always happening while the engine is turning, except for those alternators that have a clutch pulley. But the engagement of the clutch pulley has nothing to do with the output required of the alternator. And, as far as I know, the alternator doesn't have any internal parts that make it drag more or less, depending on required output.

So again, I'm not very bright, so please explain this to me.

I'm not great at understanding electronics like conversions from one thing to another, magnetism,....yet but try this. Hop in you car and start it up. Turn on every accessory you have including head lights, dome lights, ect, hold the windows switches down even after they are already completely down and watch your RPM's VERY CLOSELY and INTENTLY. Depending on age you might be absorbing a measly hp. Try when it's warmed up though and idle is at opt temp specs.

It's best you actually witness the effects sometimes than reading some guys "crap."

[joedls]

I'm not great at understanding electronics like conversions from one thing to another, magnetism,....yet but try this. Hop in you car and start it up. Turn on every accessory you have including head lights, dome lights, ect, hold the windows switches down even after they are already completely down and watch your RPM's VERY CLOSELY and INTENTLY. Depending on age you might be absorbing a measly hp. Try when it's warmed up though and idle is at opt temp specs.

It's best you actually witness the effects sometimes than reading some guys "crap."

There's absolutely no reason for me to do this. I know it will have no effect on my RPMs. The only accesories that will cause a drag on my engine are the AC (because of the clutch engagement) and the PS (if I turn the wheel). Do you actually believe this nonsense or are you just spewing something you read somewhere?

[BADDASSC6]

1) I have heard that switching to a lower viscosity fluid will free up horse power. I read magazine articles where they have switch to redline oil and then gained ~5hp on a dyno. Now if you "assume" that the horse power increase was due to reduced engine friction then the parallel can be made the increased fuel efficiency will be had by forcing the motor to do less work turning itself. I've never seen a trust worthy report proving this. Honestly if it fress up 5 hp on a 400 hp motor than that is an increase of 1.25%. Ratio that over to a car that gets 20 mpg then you should see a end 20.25 mpg. You will never see this.

2) The alternator drag issue. In order to generate an electrical current you need a conductor in a magnetic field with relative motion. Hence when you spin the magnets in an alternator it causes a current in the wires coiled around it. The problem is that now you have an electrical current in a magnetic field. That's how you create an electric motor. This is called counter torque. The counter torque is directly proportional to the magnitude of the current. So if the battery has a low charge then there will be a higher difference in the voltage potential (worded poorly) from the voltage source (alternator). That means that the magnitude of the current flow will be higher. Higher current means higher counter torque will be generated by the alternator. The energy source for the alternator is the mechanical energy generated by the motor. This higher load would be seen as decrease fuel efficiency. The reality is that the battery only holds ~14 volts and doesn't really cause that much of a load therefore effectively negligible. The ignition system and stereo are much bigger loads.

[BRIAN]

I reread the entire thread and I think I made it seem as if the benefits were great. They aren't. There fairly marginal. I'm a bit irritated now, not anyone's fault here just don't like arguing and getting on peoples bad side. I tried my best to avoid it. I won't continue on this anymore, so hopefully were all good here. :)

[BADDASSC6]

It's all good|:drink:

[BRUTAL64]

Just in the old days we used to use a Alt cut off switch to gain an extra 1/100 in the 1/4. Just something we used to do.:p

[joedls]

:drink:

[big2bird]

I'm not great at understanding electronics like conversions from one thing to another, magnetism,....

Allow me to help. 1 hp=735.6 watts/12volts=61.66 amperes.
An alternator draws "X" HP with no load. This is inertia load, fan, slip, etc.
For every 60 amperes of load, it will draw 1 additional hp, depending on speed /regulator output. The regulator determines the load, and varies the strength of the rotating field to regulate its output/hp requirement.
Since the alternator 'senses" the battery voltage, and regulates it to the required output, the battery would have to crank quite excessively to create a low enough voltage to require full output.
Therefore, according to your train of thought, we are talking fractional HP in your "quick start" scenario.

As for changing tranny fluid at 100,000 miles, my tranny guys encourage that. 90% of their work is from burnt/ broken down fluid. They say "Go for it."

[enkeivette]

Whether or not additives take time to have an effect, the length of time the oil is working at operating temp will determine how long it has to live. Therefore even if the additives are just kicking in, the oil itself is degrading. Therefore, changing it out sooner is better. I care more about the oil lubricating moving parts and being clean and debris free as it travels through the valvebody, than I do about additives. That the trans WOULD otherwise work without.

P.S. Bird you know nothing of electricity. :p

[big2bird]

I reread the entire thread and I think I made it seem as if the benefits were great. They aren't. There fairly marginal. I'm a bit irritated now, not anyone's fault here just don't like arguing and getting on peoples bad side. I tried my best to avoid it. I won't continue on this anymore, so hopefully were all good here. :)

Brian,
It's all good. I am somewhat of an automobile historian. There have been claims and hype since the auto was invented, and I am from the "test of time" school.

[BRIAN]

Awesome guys :thumbs_up::thumbs_up:

Yeah, I have up most respect for all your backgrounds and can only imagine the real full on experience you guys have. My limited experience with oil only spans 6 years during which I did outside studies beginning in high school, where I voluntarily let the auto mechanics brother (some mech engineer) use my car for oil experiments. That's where all this began for me all the way into college where I met SAE members that challenged the very same science papers found on there site. Everything from aircraft to lawnmowers were used and I gotta say it was fun experience. After all that I know I don't know squat about squat compared to any of you guys so I'm glad were are still good :).

[Vettezuki]

Awesome guys :thumbs_up::thumbs_up:

Yeah, I have up most respect for all your backgrounds and can only imagine the real full on experience you guys have. My limited experience with oil only spans 6 years during which I did outside studies beginning in high school, where I voluntarily let the auto mechanics brother (some mech engineer) use my car for oil experiments. That's where all this began for me all the way into college where I met SAE members that challenged the very same science papers found on there site. Everything from aircraft to lawnmowers were used and I gotta say it was fun experience. After all that I know I don't know squat about squat compared to any of you guys so I'm glad were are still good :).


All of us know something.
None of us knows everything.

Kinda sorta the point. Oh, and cars are cool too.

[BRUTAL64]

Brian,
It's all good. I am somewhat of an automobile historian. There have been claims and hype since the auto was invented, and I am from the "test of time" school.

Yea, like the Split fire spark plug.:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[BRUTAL64]

All of us know something.
None of us knows everything.

Kinda sorta the point. Oh, and cars are cool too.

Define "everything".:pot_stir:

[Vettezuki]

Define "everything".:pot_stir:

What you don't know.

[BRUTAL64]

What you don't know.

:stupid::bis: